Posted by NightSky on July 07, 2000 at 18:57:48:
In Reply to: Re: Voice of a Sinner posted by Bill R on July 07, 2000 at 16:47:31:
: : Rich says: History is complex & intertwined, but if you take out warfare, little happens ... regretably ...
: : There are those that would view your statement as a rationalization - Ghandi and Martin Luther King, not to mention Jesus Christ. If nothing else, they have shown us that there is a tremendous difference in being willing to die for your beliefs and being willing to kill for them, and that change can be brought about without violence. War is fought because it is the method chosen to accomplish a means by those in power. It is not inevitable, it is expedient. It is the easiest out, the road most traveled. NS
: Night Sky, I like you and I loved meeting you and I do hope we meet at the next Gathering, but.......give it a rest. The easiest cop out is to say "Oh if only everybody could love one another" or "men like war. Women would do differently." Ever hear of Catherine the Great? Catherine Medici? Bodicia of the Celts? Indirah (sp?) Ghandi? Elizabeth I, and on and on?
: Besides which, you are only HALF right. It was expedient for Hitler, and George III, and Napoleon, and Ho Chi Minh, and Saddam Hussein etc. It was NECESSARY for Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, Washington, Nelson and Wellesly. In short, it is only EXPEDIENT for the aggressor. It is a necessity of survival for the target of aggression. And sad though true, aggression and oppression has existed throughout time, and will likely continue to exist as long as men AND women have free will. Would you have us NOT defend our homes etc when faced with aggression?
: I might add that the students and successors of Ghandi are among the most aggressive and oppressive of any...Pakistani/Indian aggression continues to this day.
: But I resent the implication that men love war and seek it out
: as atavistic unthinking beasts or prey. And I rise up at the simplistic platitudes which would overlook the need to be prepared to defend home and way of life. Wherever there has been unpreparedness or naive reliance upon good will, aggression has kicked in the door sooner or later.
: Just had to have MY say. Doesnt change one bit that I look forward to seeing you at the NEXT Gathering.
: Bill R
: and his Gnome
Bill: Seems you missed my point, so I will clarify briefly. My feeling is that there is more to history than violence. The being who pulls the trigger is not necessarily the one who makes the biggest impact on the eventual outcome. There is more to studying early America than battle strategy. And, historically, there are options to aggression. Plus, shame on you, you left out Golda and Margaret. Different ideas shouldn't be threatening, but simply a view from a different perspective.
So Bill, you may want me seen and not heard, but I doubt that will ever happen. It's kind of what this whole thing is about isn't it? Freedom of expression, religion, thought and word? And as for those freedoms our forfathers fought and died for? It was another hundred years before my people gained the right to enjoy them. You're right, women do have different views on war, but we also have a different history. NS
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