Posted by Vita on August 01, 2000 at 10:07:31:
In Reply to: Re: For Vita from Zapata - from Vita to Zapata posted by Dana S. on August 01, 2000 at 05:58:53:
and I DO thank YOU for your comment: even my kids are listening. For example, I learned something, too. As I mentioned in my today's reply to Zapata, I learned that I do not know enough about Mussolini.
Does this mean I am an authority on Stalin and Hitler and Caucaescu? Even though I listened to live, face to face eye-witness accounts from people who actually suffered under these dictators? Of course not. You can never truly understand the depths evil can sink into, and the strengths, disguises and logic it can summon up to justify its deeds. I remember once, asking a truly evil person, did he not realize he was evil, and he replied: this is YOUR point of view, to me, YOU ARE A COWARD because you do not have the guts to do what I do.
Hmmm. So goodness means cowardliness?
I assure you this was a real conversation.
In his eyes, the real human qualities are what we call beastliness, in his eyes, the do-gooders, the peaceniks, those who reach out to help, exhibit behaviors developed by homo- sapiens who lacked the physical or mental strength to simply reach out and take what they want, need, or even, what they do not want or need but take it simply because they can.
: : : dear Zapata,
: : : Ok, I am half joking, and, half serious. Since we are talking reparations here, and you believe United States should pay reparations to you or to yours. Unless I have misunderstood you, this is your point, right?
: : : If I am wrong, tell me: Vita, no, I do not believe United States should pay me or my people reparations. Anyhow, while we are discussing reparations... I am wondering, are you related to the Conquistadores? Should you, or your people, not pay reparations to the natives of this land, they invaded and infected with small pox and other stuff? I wonder if you know that whole areas upon the continent where the Spanish Conquistadores landed, got almost depopulated?
: : : I mean we can reallllly go into this issue, too.... yes, perhaps you want reparations from the United States so you can pay reparations to the Aztecs, Incas, Olmecs, Tolmecs, further up North, further down, South.....
: : : Hmmm... something to ponder....
: : : Cordially yours,
: : : Vita
: : Hmmm..good point!!!:) Funny thing is, I am just reading a book about the conquistadores...How the Hopi, Taos and Zuni people were treated..History repeated itself a few hundred years later when the Residential Schools in Canada came up..
: : Hasta manana,
: : Bea
: : : Vita,
: : : : I'm a little dizzy following your intricatley woven web of suit-counter-suit. I agree with the message your are sending--that is if I am correct in saying that your message is that there is too complicated a cause-effect-attack-retaliate-attack-again line of events to be able to go back and say who should pay what to whom and how much. At the same time, much of what has been lost is beyond payment in money. Culture, langauge, history, even memory have been destroyed all of which are priceless.
: : : : The sad truth is that in many ways, the system of individual justice is very much the same as that of international justice. At some point, people no longer know who to go after (sue, kill, eliminate, jail, etc.) in order to address the problems we face. Just look at the rising movement to sue gunmakers as a consequence of rising gun violionce. We may all be grasping for straws in the hope not necessarily making sense of the situation but rather finding a solution to the situation; people seem to be more interested finding out how to stop the killing than understanding how the killing got started in the first place. Many don't care to know why Pinochet had so many people killed; they just want him to stand trial for it. The interesting thing about Pinochets case is that the question of reparations from the government has not come up. Instead, it seems that people simply want him to own up to or to at least have a governing body find him guilty....go figure.
: : : : Nonetheless, we have laws aimed at making an ATTEMPT to settle things, if not the score. (You may be asking "How many times is the score ACTUALLY settled?" Not very often, if you ask me). As such, the international community must make an effort to do the same. Maybe NOT retroactively, for as you have demonstrated, to do so would probably mean an eternity of litigation which, when complete, would probably result in the world being sued back into the Stone Age. Nations are like individuals; therefore, the right of one nation--as the right of one individual--should end where the rights of another nation--or individual--begin.
: : : : Am I frustrated? Not really. Disgusted but not frustrated. To be frustrated about all this would be to believe that nothing can be done about any of it. To be disgusted is to be aware that there is something about the current situation that I not only dislike but wholeheartedly believe must be done away with. We all do what we can within the realm and scope of our worlds in which we live.
: : : : By the way, I know very little about my family--another thing about which I am disgusted and am slowly working to remedy. When I find out more, I'll be able to give you a better idea of who to sue. From what I know, however, we'd have to do major work in and around the state of Chihuahua, Mexico to start out. Got free time in the near future?
: : : : Zapata
: I'm just popping in any ol' place hear to say that I'm reading and learning from this discussion. We spent last evening hear at my home going over several of the points that have been mentioned. Even my kids are listening. Thank you all for taking the time to put into words your thoughts a feelings.
: Dana S.
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