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CapeCodGirl
Pathfinder
USA
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March 13 2004
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 Posted - March 16 2004 : 10:22:56 PM
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I have read Twain's critical review of Cooper. Too bad the man wasn't around to defend himself. Sad. Has anyone else read it?
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hmacdougall
Pathfinder
USA
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June 30 2003
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Posted - March 16 2004 : 11:56:21 PM
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Cooper scholar Lance Schachterle did answer it, in detail, a few years ago. See: http://www.oneonta.edu/external/cooper/articles/other/1988other-schachterle.html
Mark Twain, besides having a very different writing style from that of Cooper, was deeply prejudiced against Native Americans -- whom he considered both inferior and despicable -- and he never forgave Cooper for writing sympathetically about them. Indeed, he once wrote (but never finished) a novel, to be called Tom and Huck among the Indians, in which Tom Sawyer reads Cooper -- and he and Huck go out west to find real Indians, who turn out to be nothing but murderous villains. In Twain's famous (and very funny essay) he also cheated: he faked many of the "quotations" that he then takes apart. They aren't in Cooper at all. |
Hugh MacDougall
James Fenimore Cooper Society |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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May 13 2002
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CapeCodGirl
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
March 13 2004
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Posted - March 17 2004 : 09:14:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by richfed
No, Cooper may not have been around to defend himself, but, luckily, we were!!! See: MR. TWAIN'S CRITIQUING OFFENSES.
The work of TGATL!
Thankyou richfed. I read it and agree with it 100% lol.
Thanks for the link. There are so many things at this web site that I haven't found yet.
Have a great day~ Mylissa |
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CapeCodGirl
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
March 13 2004
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Posted - March 17 2004 : 09:22:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hmacdougall
Cooper scholar Lance Schachterle did answer it, in detail, a few years ago. See: http://www.oneonta.edu/external/cooper/articles/other/1988other-schachterle.html
Mark Twain, besides having a very different writing style from that of Cooper, was deeply prejudiced against Native Americans -- whom he considered both inferior and despicable -- and he never forgave Cooper for writing sympathetically about them. Indeed, he once wrote (but never finished) a novel, to be called Tom and Huck among the Indians, in which Tom Sawyer reads Cooper -- and he and Huck go out west to find real Indians, who turn out to be nothing but murderous villains. In Twain's famous (and very funny essay) he also cheated: he faked many of the "quotations" that he then takes apart. They aren't in Cooper at all.
Very interesting... I have saved the page to my favorites and will read it entirely later. I did scan the essay and did not see anything about Twain's critical view on the shooting innacuracies. However, I did not read The Deerslayer, so I am not really familiar with the actual text. I will contemplate this at a later time. Thankyou for the excellent link!!!
 ~Mylissa |
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nelipot
Lost in the Wilderness
United Blue States
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July 22 2004
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Posted - July 23 2004 : 2:55:00 PM
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I haven't read Twain's essay yet, nor the rebuttal. I want to finish reading Deerslayer first.
As much as I love the book, the writing style, Deerslayer's character, the virgin forest setting, etc., there are some things that make me go, "Huh??"
The first was when Cooper stated that it was the redman's nature and tradition to scalp people, and that we white men should not be upset by this. Cooper was obviously unaware that scalping was a tradition insituted by European white men against the Indians, and that the native americans started to scalp white men in order to get them back for it!
But I just chalked that up to ignorance on Cooper's part.
The next thing, was when Cooper started describing one of the Indian camps, and he wrote that the main fire was blazing right at the foot of a tree. I can't believe that anyone who has ever spent any time camping at all could ever believe that anyone with half a brain would ever build a fire at the base of a tree.
I became more suspicious when later in the book, Cooper wrote that an Indian who had been killed swam to the bottom of the lake and gripped the reeds, where his dead body remained? ? Wouldn't a dead body float for at least a short while?
I doubted myself and figured that Copper must have known what he was talking about.
But the thing that really got me was when some Indians were firing a rifle at someone in the lake, but that instead of entering the water, the bullets glanced (or ricocheted) off the surface of the water! That's just got to be physically impossible.
Things like this make it difficult for me to suspend my disbelief and enter the story.
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Chris
Colonial Settler
USA
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May 25 2002
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Posted - July 23 2004 : 4:41:58 PM
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[But the thing that really got me was when some Indians were firing a rifle at someone in the lake, but that instead of entering the water, the bullets glanced (or ricocheted) off the surface of the water! That's just got to be physically impossible.]
Oooh, no! Given the right angle, the bullets do glance of the water. I don't know that they ricochet back toward the shooter as they might off a rock, but they definitely can change direction and not enter the water.
Chris
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
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Posted - July 23 2004 : 7:15:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nelipot
As much as I love the book, the writing style, Deerslayer's character, the virgin forest setting, etc., there are some things that make me go, "Huh??"
The first was when Cooper stated that it was the redman's nature and tradition to scalp people, and that we white men should not be upset by this. Cooper was obviously unaware that scalping was a tradition insituted by European white men against the Indians, and that the native americans started to scalp white men in order to get them back for it!
But I just chalked that up to ignorance on Cooper's part.
This can be debated ... and is. |
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Hippie_forever
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
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March 10 2005
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Posted - March 21 2005 : 12:54:41 AM
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| I know of Mark Twain talking critically of Cooper, whether that was becuz he was predujice against Native Americans or was upset Cooper wrote the way he did about him, i dont know. What I do know though was that Cooper was really a bad writer. Mark Twain wasn't the only one who thought so. When I read Last of the Mohicans the revewier in the book said that even though Cooper had great stories and protrayed his characters in such a great way, he was a terrible writer. Now of course I was like ok he cant be that bad. But when reading the book I found cooper just going off on some random detail and when finally coming back you were quite lost on the situation. So I think Cooper couldn't write well, but when he did, he did it brilliantly. |
§ÅV3
+H3
Mü§ic ^_^ |
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JohnHartwick
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
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April 20 2006
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Posted - April 21 2006 : 4:01:59 PM
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| Twain's essay is an excellent teaching tool. When I worked with University students on improving their writing I went over this essay as an example of how to think about clear, concise writing. There is much merit in Cooper's style, but many of Twain's points are fair and accurate, as well as being witty enough to charm students into being entertained while analyzing the work of "old, dead white men" who they've been trained to look down on. Not once have I seen a student spend an hour talking about Twain's essay, familiar or not with any of Cooper's work, and not improve a great deal on their very next assignment. |
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Jayne
Overseer of Ariel's Auction
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May 23 2002
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Posted - April 23 2006 : 10:30:51 AM
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I'm currently reading an interesting book called Crazy Horse and Custer: the Parallel Lives of Two American Warriors by Stephen Ambrose. He mentions that Custer read LOTM by Cooper and was fascinated by
and sympathetic to Native Americans after he read it. I found that interesting and somewhat hard to believe - until Ambrose described Custer as a rather "enthusiastic" fighter for the Union while also being anti-Lincoln and sympathetic to southern causes.
Interesting discussion. |
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Cooper slammed by Mark Twain
