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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
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September 03 2003
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 Posted - April 14 2005 : 11:18:18 PM
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Poll Question:
Do you believe that people are inherently born good or evil? Do you believe people are a product of the environments they are raised in? Good? Evil? Nature? Nurture?
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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
USA
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October 14 2002
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 Posted - April 15 2005 : 12:40:10 AM
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| I believe mankind is born incapable of any good (not man's definition of good, but God's). God according to his sovereign will and mercy calls and regenerates whom he chooses, these though still corrupt, are then capable of some good. |
YMHS,
Connecticut•Ranger
Thomas Thacher
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - April 15 2005 : 10:14:35 AM
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Speaking from my religious views, I agree with "CT" in that we are all born with original sin. Even with baptisim, it is meant to be an uphill fight for the rest of your life. Life is meant as a test and teacher, very few of us manage to rise above; but those that do, like Pope John Paul II, Gandhi, Sister Teresa, etc., shine as an inspiration to us all.
Now, as to my secular views, the answer becomes more complex. Many professionals of psychology have wondered if anti-social behavior is genetic or enviromentally influenced. Speaking from a law enforcement perspective, I believe that it could be either, or a combination of the two. For instance, I have known guys who grew up in a disadvantaged position, but managed to rise above and succeed where their forefathers and peers had failed. On the other hand, I have also arrested the sons and grandsons of the same criminals that my father had arrested, many years before. Since my dad and I look alot alike, you should have seen some of the looks from my father's previous 'customers' when they stumble into the courtroom to show support for 'junior'. Every now and then, there are small pleasures that come with my chosen profession...
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders
USA
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March 14 2005
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Posted - April 15 2005 : 11:39:09 AM
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| Assuming no genetic handicap, - I believe people are born with a certain inherited bias, which is honed/refined/enhanced during their early years. After that it's a struggle to stay ahead of the game morally. For some such as the last Pope etc. it's probably not all that big a struggle. For others, another matter completely. I think the more "self-centered" one is - the more it becomes easy to discard what you find "morally inconvienent" in persuit of any persoanl goals. |
you can keep "The Change" |
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joseph wiggs
Colonial Settler
USA
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January 12 2005
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Posted - January 13 2007 : 5:18:23 PM
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we are never closer to God but, when we are given birth. From that moment until death, we are taught to be selfish and clannish. To look upon those outside of the "group" as inferior in some way or another. The glowing ember of love within us all(a gift from God so as to remember from whence we came)is slowly dampened by socialization until only cold and useless ashes remain.
The Genesis of evil is the superiority complex created and nourished by our "drunkenness" and inability to remember who we actually are. |
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RedFraggle
Mohicanite
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October 13 2006
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Posted - January 14 2007 : 08:55:03 AM
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Oooh, potentially prickly question. My answer is that a person is basically a product of the environment he is raised in, but that genetics also factor in. I believe that every person is born with the potential to be and to do good, but that not all of us turn out that way. Whether or not someone is ultimately a "good" person depends on how he is raised, what sort of people surround him (friends, relatives, role models, etc.), occasionally his financial status, and (sometimes inescapably) his genes.
I, for instance, am what you might call a "goody two shoes." I can't even speed without feeling guilty! I was raised in a staunchly religious household by two caring parents and went to private school, despite the fact that my family was just barely middle class. My father worked three jobs just to keep us afloat, and I think I inherited some of his work ethic. (I'm still a straight-A student and am a PhD candidate in my ninth year of higher education.)
I have a cousin, by contrast, who was given up by his mother and raised by other relatives who indulged him in every possible way because they felt sorry for him. What money they had they lavished on him, making sure that he had all the latest video game devices, toys, movies, etc. The kid had seven bikes that he wouldn't let any of the other kids in the neighborhood (even his cousins!) ride. They never disciplined him, never told him "no," and never made him do anything he didn't want to do. In addition, he had a father (albeit an absent one) with serious drug and alcohol, as well as pychological, problems. My cousin is now 24 years old, has never had a job, was allowed to drop out of high school because he didn't like it. He spends his entire day surfing less than reputable sites on the internet, which have poisoned his mind with hatred, racism, and irrational fears. Because the relatives who raised him still feel sorry for his mother's abandonment, they have never bothered to counter any of the radical ideas to which he subscribes. He is afraid to leave the house because he thinks "Mexicans" (his word, not mine) will beat him up; he thinks all Jews should be eradicated and idolizes Hitler; he has threatened to kill himself and those who raised him. He lies pathologically and steals. He needs serious psychological help, but everyone around him says he's "a normal boy."
The point of my rather long example? Here are two people, myself and my cousin, who grew up in the same neighborhood (about eight blocks from one another), in the same extended family. My home was nurturing but strict; his was over-indulgent and not so much nurturing as pitying. My parents often said "no" when us kids wanted expensive toys and clothes; my cousin got everything he wanted. My parents were both normal, healthy individuals; his were not.
Nurture, money, and genetics have made a world of difference in this case. If my cousin had been raised by my parents, I think he would have turned out to be a completely different person.
Apologies for the long post, but I think my examples illustrate my point. Not that any of you have to agree with me. It's just what I think. |
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Irishgirl
Council of Elders
USA
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February 14 2006
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Posted - January 14 2007 : 10:00:29 AM
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| I voted for none of the above as I believe it is a mixture of things. Genetics plays a part. If you were born the child of a serial killer then you could have those murderous genes in you already and your environment and the way you are raised too plays a major part. If you have lousy parents and are beaten constantly and humiliated and degraded then you grow up filled with anger. I am not saying all abused children grow up bad but the potential is certainly there. |
IG |
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joseph wiggs
Colonial Settler
USA
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January 12 2005
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Posted - January 20 2007 : 9:19:18 PM
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| Genes are the physical(non-reality)counterpart of the spirit(reality.) As such they are at times defective. These entities who suffer such a state of being are incapable of performing good acts. That is not their purpose in this realm of existence. Their impetus is to send "tired" souls back home. In other words, were it not for those who commit the most horrendous of crimes, pure souls would be trapped here far too long. Once we realize that "life" is but a classroom of learning in preparation true reality (life after death) we consistently loose/forget the true meaning of life. |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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December 18 2004
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Posted - March 05 2007 : 11:34:34 AM
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I honestly believe all men are born good.
Forgive me for opening a can of worms but
God does not create anything evil.
Evil comes from Satan and Satan gives it to man.
We are a product of our rings? WE always have a choice to be a "product" or to be who we want to be, the person we envision within ourselves. But the choice is and always will be ours.
We make our own destinies, our own fates.
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I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - March 05 2007 : 1:18:44 PM
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This is a tough one. I believe that we are all born "evil" and that does come from Satan. (Thanks for that one, Eve!)
I believe that we all have to be taught how to be good. Think of a small toddler. Everything they want to do, on their own, seems to be wrong. Parents have to work on them constantly throughout their growing up years to teach them how to be good. Genetics and personalities enter into it, yes. We have all known of someone who, no matter how strongly they were taught to be good people by their parents or others who cared, just somehow "need" to be bad.
I do not believe that we make our own destinies or fates. Do some of us really plan to die in a car crash or contract cancer? I believe that God is in control of that, and that we can choose our own roads along the way to that destiny. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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joseph wiggs
Colonial Settler
USA
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January 12 2005
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Posted - March 09 2007 : 9:07:39 PM
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Evil and good are merely two separate paths one chooses to trod. Both have their perspective rewards and pitfalls. There is no entity that governs either. We choose to be good or bad. When we choose to be good, the right path leads us to the ultimate reward; oneness with God. When we choose to experience the bad, our fate is to return; separation from God.
The ultimate reality is that God allows us to decide, to experience free choice. Accountability for what we do, whatever we do lies within us. |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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December 18 2004
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Posted - March 10 2007 : 5:08:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
I believe that we are all born "evil" and that does come from Satan. (Thanks for that one, Eve!)
How can a person, born innocent, pure, and undefiled be born evil? Makes no sense to me but hey...if it floats your boat. |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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Posted - March 12 2007 : 10:21:50 AM
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"Original sin."
You have stated that you are a Christian. Adam... Eve... Satan... temptation... the apple.... Remember?
That's why I said (quite sarcastically) "Thanks" to Eve. The consequences of her actions determined that we would always have to fight "evil" (or if the word evil turns you off, you can substitute the words "badness" or "sin") within ourselves and in other people. It's there. Some of us just have more of it than others.
It's in Genesis. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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August 16 2006
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Posted - March 12 2007 : 12:13:53 PM
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Here I go paraphrasing 'The Matrix' again: there is no apple! In Gen. 2, it is described as the fruit of 'the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.' It could have been a peach, or an apricot, or a plum, or a nectarine, or an orange, or even a grapefruit (now there's a thought to boggle the mind). Ooh, just think of it: 'the grapefruit of the knowledge of good and evil.' 
Hmmm, if this fruit actually was an apple, how would that tie in the the old saw, 'an apple a day keeps the doctor away'?  |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - March 12 2007 : 12:17:21 PM
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OK, OK. I stand corrected! 
Apple, Schnapple. That's not what's important here. The "act" itself is what did it. |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
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July 17 2005
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Posted - March 12 2007 : 3:53:02 PM
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Then you have to ask what type of apple? Granny Smith, maybe? (Real name was Eve Smith?) But the thing you should not confuse is evil and sin. One can be a very good person and still be a sinner. Everyone is a sinner. But some people are just evil. You have to have known one of these people to appreciate the difference. I don't think their environment had anything to do with it, since I know people who were raised in the worst possible conditions and turned out well. I think something in their brains is wired differently. Something that we will never understand.
By the way, Granny Smith was really named Mary Ann, and it was Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak that invented the Apple. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
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December 18 2004
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Posted - March 15 2007 : 3:10:40 PM
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Good point, Fitz!
And you really are an encyclopedia, ya' know that?
Although I do think Wes gives you a good run for your money. |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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joseph wiggs
Colonial Settler
USA
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January 12 2005
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Posted - July 22 2007 : 7:22:27 PM
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| "You've got to say yes to this miracle of life as it is,not on the condition that it follows your rules." |
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Good vs. Evil
