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timbrads
Corporal
USA
Status: offline |
 Posted - January 23 2005 : 10:59:12 AM
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Remember the old Twilight Zone episode?
I first saw it when I was a kid back in the 60's. I had never been to the battlefield and to be honest, at that time I thought "Custer's Last Stand" was only a movie.
When I saw the show, I really thought I had seen a picture of the battfield when they showed the LSH monument with the names of the National Guardsmen on it. Of course I knew that was fiction, but I always wondered if they had used three names that were on the marker for the names of the character in the show.
Regardless, I still find that episode entertaining, and I can't help but believe it generated that spark for me to find out the truth and desire to make the trip! Since then I have bee the the field about four times!
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - January 23 2005 : 12:39:53 PM
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And I thought I was the only one!?! I can remember that episode like it happened yesterday. Great question, did the movie use names of actual particpants in the battle for the three guardsmen. Could they have been descendants of the troopers who died there and fated to join their forefathers? Intriguing, yes?
I have not seen that episode since then, if a repeat occurs I will pay attention to the names and get back with you. You do the same, O.K.? |
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timbrads
Corporal
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - January 23 2005 : 4:00:16 PM
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I think I did check it once against the actual casualty lists, it has been a while. I have it on DVD, I will have to play it again and look a little closer.
I think the attractive part about that particular show is, The Twilight Zone produced an image, that many of us who study the campaign and wonder what it would be like to go back in time, could relate to! I thought it was interesting how they highlighted the Lone Teepee in the show and how Warren Oates tried to explain what they were seeing! I will be back in touch. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - January 23 2005 : 6:48:50 PM
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| WoW! I had forgotten that part of the movie about the Lone Teepee. The Twilight Zone created an image that has remained with me to this day. It proposed a situation where several men were allowed to cross the time barrier. They didn't have to but, they hoped that they could make a difference in the outcome. Another angle, what if some of us were there. Perhaps that would explain the fascination we all have for this battle. Alright, you can call the men in white now, I'm ready. |
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timbrads
Corporal
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - January 23 2005 : 9:32:55 PM
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Hey Joseph, I reviewed the show a little while ago. Hey, the three names on the monument were - W. Conners, Michael McCluskey, and Richard Langsfor (none of them are authentic names). They did a pretty good job of reporducing the monument except the scale was much smaller. By the way, the other names visible on the monument are real!
It was interesting to see that the monument was on flat ground, not even up on a hill ! Of course the mountains visible in the background were pretty close to, typcical hills of Hollywood, hee, hee.
I really do like the show though, it is a real classic. Several years ago while on a trip with Jim Court during Little Bighorn Days, we were on a tour bus retracing Custers route from Ft. Lincoln and while we were riding, they played a tape of this episode! I thought that was cool.
Hey I know what you mean about "some of us being there" I get some involved sometimes in the research and stuff that I almost get the feeling that I know the guys and somehow can imagine what is was actually like, although I do realize that our casual armchair study is no comparison for fighting for your life.....without hope of victory. But, it sure is exciting to study and walk the fields ! |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - January 24 2005 : 9:13:57 PM
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Thank you so much for the information, I really appreciate it. I agree that it was a real classic. Why am I so dissapointed that actual names were not used? I have had the pleasure to visit the battlefield twice in my life. I am planning to return this year sometime in June. In 2003, my wife and I planned to vist but, unfortunantlt, was unable to make it. she spoke with a Mr. Jim Court who was offering a guide service. Carole advised me that Mr. Court was a very personable gentleman who made her feel very much at ease. Could this be the same person as your friend?
A final thought, in this life, you and I have done nothing to prepare us for the horror that the troopers experienced on that blistering, hot day when the smoke and dust choked the very essense of life from their gasping lungs. a time when adrenalin coursed through the bodies of men who desparately sought safety from the ferocious, painted demons who snatched away their lives with a single, savage blow.
Not in this life, but how about some other one? |
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timbrads
Corporal
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - January 24 2005 : 9:21:22 PM
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Yes, Jim Court is the same I am sure. He is retired from the National Park Service. He was the Superintendant of the battlefield at the time of the fire and the excavations. I just got a flyer from him recently about his spring tour, maybe it the one you are talking about. He is first class and I don't think you would ever get a better guide, he knows the history, the field, and all the rest about where to go and how to see it!
I hope you get to go this year. John Doerner (Battlefield Historian) has contributed a lot to the battlefield in adding new interpretive markers on the field. The last time I went it was fantastic. |
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timbrads
Corporal
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - January 24 2005 : 9:31:00 PM
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Hey, this is a picture of me on one of my trips when I went over to the Rosebud Battlefield. Took the hike to Conical Hill, it was great!
The top picture is at Crook's Hill and the bottom one is at Conical Hill looking back to Crook's Hill ( marked with an X, where I was standing in the first picture)
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - January 25 2005 : 7:57:49 PM
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| Great pics Tim! I know too little of the Rosebud battle. Tim, what is the difference between Crook's hill and the conical hill. What do they each signify? |
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timbrads
Corporal
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - January 25 2005 : 8:04:36 PM
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| The battle started down at the Rosebud Creek down at the bottom of the bluffs in the center top of picture. It bacame a hill to hill fight. Crook's Hill was where General Crook fought his way to and used that point for his command post. When the Souix left from there they popped up on Connical Hill. This was a large area to fight and Crook's Command came very close to being out maneuvered. There is a very good book on the Rosebud Battle written by Neil Magnum. It is an often ignored portion of the Souix Campaign. It is actually very interesting and the area is pristine and the solitude there is great! Been there about three times, and never ran into anyone other than down at the parking area. Few people will walk the field. |
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alfuso
Corporal
Status: offline |
Posted - January 27 2005 : 5:54:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
WoW! I had forgotten that part of the movie about the Lone Teepee. The Twilight Zone created an image that has remained with me to this day. It proposed a situation where several men were allowed to cross the time barrier. They didn't have to but, they hoped that they could make a difference in the outcome. Another angle, what if some of us were there. Perhaps that would explain the fascination we all have for this battle. Alright, you can call the men in white now, I'm ready.
I have never forgiven them for leaving the tank behind!
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Deny Everything
Prepare to Panic |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - January 27 2005 : 8:11:18 PM
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| Oh man, I forgot. Why did they leave the tank behind. Alfuso I bet you remember. Talk about Gatling guns, a tank would have even the odds! I swear I can't remember. |
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BJMarkland
Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - January 28 2005 : 06:52:42 AM
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Yeah, they left the tank behind. I distinctly recall wondering the same thing, "Why don't you take the tank you fools!" If they could take .45 caliber automatic pistols, a tank should have been acceptable! 
Sheesh, we are giving away our age big time!
Billy |
Edited by - BJMarkland on January 28 2005 06:53:25 AM |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - January 28 2005 : 4:39:24 PM
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Tim, help us to resolve this dilemma. You have the DVC. Was the tank out of gas, were the tracts broken, if not why did I not think it was unusual not to have used it. Could it have been that I was S-T-U-P-I-D? Naw, what was I thinking.
P.s. We are rather long in the tooth huh Billy! |
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timbrads
Corporal
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - January 28 2005 : 5:05:33 PM
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Well, there was no significant reason as to why they left the tank. They left the tank and ran to the top of the hill to see what they were hearing and just made the decision to go down and join the fight. I guess the writers felt for them to leave the tank was a resembelance of Custer's leaving the gattling guns ??
Remeber, they made the decision at the top of the ridge and just spontaneously charged into the fitht with their small arms. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - January 28 2005 : 9:31:41 PM
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| Thanks for the answer, I had forgotten. I guess they got so caught up in the moment that they reacted to an action. I've got to find that show, what memories! |
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frankboddn
Major
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - February 08 2005 : 11:08:42 PM
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Tim, this Twilight Zone show you guys are talking about, did someone say it's on DVD? I vaguely remember it, only because it's been so long since I saw it. Also, thanks for your home page site and the pictures from Crook's Hill and Conical Hill. I've had the good fortune of going to all those sites beginning from Busby. Appreciate your site.
quote:
Originally posted by timbrads
Remember the old Twilight Zone episode?
I first saw it when I was a kid back in the 60's. I had never been to the battlefield and to be honest, at that time I thought "Custer's Last Stand" was only a movie.
When I saw the show, I really thought I had seen a picture of the battfield when they showed the LSH monument with the names of the National Guardsmen on it. Of course I knew that was fiction, but I always wondered if they had used three names that were on the marker for the names of the character in the show.
Regardless, I still find that episode entertaining, and I can't help but believe it generated that spark for me to find out the truth and desire to make the trip! Since then I have bee the the field about four times!
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - February 09 2005 : 8:27:33 PM
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| Frank, I believe Tim said he had it on DVD. I've been looking for it so that I can enjoy another wonderful opportunity to revisit a cherish memory of my past. I know that some will laugh when I say that there must exist a profound reason for our(all of us) deep interest in this battle. "what goes around, comes around." Maybe? |
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timbrads
Corporal
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - February 09 2005 : 9:39:01 PM
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Hey guys,
The episode "The 7th is Made up of Phantoms" is on DVD. It is on Volume 19 and is part of a complete set of Twilight Zone shows. It is great! The best way I know to get a copy is to go on Ebay. People are breaking up the sets and selling individual volumes. I have seen Vol 10 for sale on there several times. It is well worth the money, and It is a trip down memory lane for sure. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - February 10 2005 : 6:21:55 PM
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| I'm going on E-bay, I'm going on E-bay, I'm going on E-bay! I never thought of that. Thanks Tim! |
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The Seventh is Made up of Phantoms
