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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
 Posted - October 08 2006 : 2:22:57 PM
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| You are right, i was out of line and for that i apologize. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - October 08 2006 : 7:02:14 PM
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Thanks Joe and apology accepted.
Regards
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - February 03 2007 : 7:51:56 PM
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"Our task has just begun. We must conquer those Indians and put them on their reservations We must find out what has happened to Major Elliot."
Sheridan to General Custer after his oral report following the Battle of the Wa****a. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - February 08 2007 : 08:41:34 AM
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| To the military this was there only fight and they never have to consider political correctness of their actions only success and at what costs. |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - February 08 2007 : 6:46:15 PM
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| Ironically, for a great many Americans of that era Sheridan's sentiments were politically correct. After years of reprehensible behavior, by both sides, the stronger group won. The final question was, is and, remains this: were the actions of this great Nation justified in their treatment of the Native American. If so, how? |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 16 2011 : 1:10:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
quote:
Testimony does not cease to be because it is incorrect, it remains evidence based upon observation although it may be an incorrect observation or conclusion. Yes, you are quite right,
Joe that is not correct. A judge will not allow false testimony to be considered.
False testimony is perjury and has nothing to do with evidence. They are separate entities. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 22 2011 : 08:49:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joe wiggs
quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
quote:
Testimony does not cease to be because it is incorrect, it remains evidence based upon observation although it may be an incorrect observation or conclusion. Yes, you are quite right,
Joe that is not correct. A judge will not allow false testimony to be considered.
False testimony is perjury and has nothing to do with evidence. They are separate entities.
False testimony is the evidence used to convict someone of perjury. What is different is that eye witnesses have different observations of what they see all of the time. It is truly what they believe they saw and is not false even if inaccurate.
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 22 2011 : 1:47:59 PM
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Not wishing to be drawn down into the well of semantics, I will say the following. There is a distinct,albeit,subtle difference between evidence and perjury. Evidence either substantiates the elements of a crime or disproves those elements. It is neither "false" nor "true." It has no "intent";it is what it is.
Perjury is either "true" or "false",the former having good faith and the latter malice aforethought.
Perjury may be utilized to taint evidence by altering the "condition" in which evidence is perceived by rational and reasonable thought. However, it can not be replaced nor substitute by evidence. They are two different and separate entities. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 23 2011 : 11:59:54 AM
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I don't know what your laws were back east but perjury requires intent here. I have never heard of true perjury as having good faith. Only you can make up something like that.
Good work Joe. I see the defense claiming but you honor it was true perjury.
Seem that false perjury would mean its the truth?
One of the elements of the crime (remember those Joe)is that person knows they are making a false statement.
13-2702. Perjury; classification
A. A person commits perjury by making either:
1. A false sworn statement in regard to a material issue, believing it to be false.
2. A false unsworn declaration, certificate, verification or statement in regard to a material issue that the person subscribes as true under penalty of perjury, believing it to be false.
B. Perjury is a class 4 felony.
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
Edited by - AZ Ranger on August 23 2011 12:16:12 PM |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 23 2011 : 12:19:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
I don't what your laws were back east but perjury requires intent here. I have never heard of true perjury as having good faith. Only you can make up something like that.
quote:
I apologize for my error. If you substitute "testimony" for perjury in my statement which was followed by "is is either true or false the former having good faith and the latter being perjury" you will see my true intent
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Good work Joe. I see the defense claiming but you honor it was true perjury.
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Good one Az, I can just see the Judge's face on that one.
Seem that false perjury would mean its the truth?
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Absolutely! In the world of Bizzaro, DC comics circa 60's perhaps.
AZ Ranger
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 23 2011 : 12:27:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joe wiggs
Not wishing to be drawn down into the well of semantics, I will say the following. There is a distinct,albeit,subtle difference between evidence and perjury. Evidence either substantiates the elements of a crime or disproves those elements. It is neither "false" nor "true." It has no "intent";it is what it is.
Pejuryr is either "true" or "false",the former having good faith and the latter malice aforethought.
Perjury may be utilized to taint evidence by altering the "condition" in which evidence is perceived by rational and reasonable thought. However, it can not be replaced nor substitute by evidence. They are two different and separate entities.
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“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 23 2011 : 12:31:00 PM
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Wrong again Joe. Testimony that is not true is not always perjury. You must prove that person knew it was false and testified knowing that it was false.
Eye witness accounts are a good example of this. If the person believes that is what they saw whether true or not it is not perjury.
A eye witness that knows that they are giving false information about what they saw commits perjury.
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
Edited by - AZ Ranger on August 23 2011 12:34:44 PM |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 23 2011 : 7:24:42 PM
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I beg to differ, I'm right this time and wrong the last time! Testimony is either truthful or not, at the moment it is discovered to be untruthful (under oath) does it become perjury.
Unfortunately,semantics can sometimes interrupt communication because personal perspectives may,sometimes,create an undesirable "slant" on what is actually being said. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - August 27 2011 : 12:44:22 AM
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No there is two elements to the crime it must be discovered to be untruthful and it must be known to be untruthful when stated. Discovering it to be untruthful is not perjury without the person knowing it was untruthful.
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“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 05 2011 : 5:27:14 PM
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Please define how testimony is NOT either truthful or untruthful as I already posted? What else can it possibly be? Short or tall, fat or slim, handsome or ugly,etc. How else can perjury be anything other than what I have stated, a crime when it is discovered to be so (at a hearing) as posted by myself. Remarkably, you have taken my statement, repeated it, thus re-rendering as if it were a novel interpretation by yourself. Fascinating!
You might want to stay away from the "toddy for the body" partner! |
Edited by - joe wiggs on September 05 2011 5:34:49 PM |
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DEATHS OF THE BIG "THREE"
