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Lurking Huron3088
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 Posted - May 11 2004 : 2:05:59 PM
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I always wondered..what were Chingachcook and Hawkeye kinda throwing out in the wind at the last part? I always assumed it was the ashes of Uncas..but is it some earth or something? Part of some ritual? Or were Alice and Uncas buried together? Or were those their ashes..not only Uncas's?..i always wondered what happened to their bodies... because I assumed that was Uncas's ashes and Alice was buried.
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alikws
Colonial Settler
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Posted - May 14 2004 : 3:07:44 PM
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| native tobacco is likely, have to check that scene again,as for uncas and alice, the bodies would have been recovered and buried a couple miles from the village if at all possible... that camrons family could not be recovered hurt a bit and you can see it... |
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Lurking Huron3087
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Posted - May 17 2004 : 10:39:03 AM
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| native tabacco? Interesting... may i ask why? Sorry..not very familiar with the American-Indian ways..though i would love to know more |
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alikws
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Posted - May 18 2004 : 09:36:11 AM
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checked again last night, looks like pipe tobacco {its stringy}... was offered to the 4 directions, then taken by the wind {means is lakota, he did what is familiar to him}
native tobacco is a bit harsh, would have looked more like dried green tea ...
tobacco is a sacrifice, the smoke carries prayers to creator... not unlike a christan communion cerimony...
the lakota lost the tobacco, and use red willow bark.. talk about harsh...
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Lurking Huron3087
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Posted - May 18 2004 : 1:12:17 PM
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| Ah..i see..I always wanted to know the significance..thanks a lot! |
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chasis_22
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Posted - May 20 2004 : 5:46:25 PM
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| I had always thought it was the ashes of Uncas. I know in many Native American tribes the bodies are wrapped in blankets and set up high on the ...uhhh...I forget what they call it but it is like a wooden bed with long legs. In my studies of the NA culture I learned that many of the tribes would burn the bodies and scatter the ashes in the wind from a high place, almost like an offering to the Great Spirit. Many tribes believed it was the only way the soul of the warrior would be able to join the rest of the deceased tribal members in the after life. Burials such as those were very sacred and honorable, this is why in the movie the huron would not walk onto the burial ground, they feared it would anger the Great Spirit if there was a war on such a spiritual place. |
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alikws
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Posted - May 24 2004 : 1:52:04 PM
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burial scaffolds are a western/plains convention... gets that person a bit closer to creator...
now in the west putting someone on a scaffold is temporary and symbolic,not unlike a wake,
then dirt mounded over the body...
here in the east, the person would have been brought to a family site, dressed well, and buried with a weapon,tools,food and prayer items for the journey... rocks to discourage scavengers &c would be piled on the site...
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wlogwihlas
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 10:31:15 AM
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| Nicotina Rustica or Kinnicanik/mishma, would be my guess, like Alikws said they are forms of early native tobacoo. |
hollow square...Now!!!
You probably are wondering why we are all gathered here today.
Look boys, we captured an "it". |
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Okwaho
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 1:26:03 PM
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Tobacco is sacred and highly symbolic,go to google and punch in "tobacco offering by Indians" and see the first site,"Encyclopedia of North American Indians" for a starter.
Tom Patton |
It's great to be an Indian ally of the French. |
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Okwaho
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 1:58:40 PM
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Cremations were not unknown among Native Eastern woodland peoples mostly in the Archaic Period.There was,however,a cremation found at the Rock Island,Michigan site.Excavation Unit M: The Cemetery contained 14 burials and one of them{No.4} contained a cremated adult male.A number of the usual items including,a pipe tomahawk and an English Northwest trade gun with the lock plate stamped [17]62 were found and that date defines the earliest date of interment. "Rock Island Historical Indian Archealogy in the Northern Lake Michigan Basin" by Ronald J. Mason.
Tom Patton
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It's great to be an Indian ally of the French. |
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wlogwihlas
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 2:09:45 PM
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| Tom, I know you, we fight together all the time at events. but, my question is, if the guy was cremated, how do they know it was a guy? |
hollow square...Now!!!
You probably are wondering why we are all gathered here today.
Look boys, we captured an "it". |
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Okwaho
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 5:47:14 PM
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I wondered if any one would ask that question and I could see how observant they were.It's really quite simple,I mentioned a pipe tomahawk and an English Northwest trade gun Those alone show that the deceased was a warrior.Other items found were; a sheath knife{blade only} with brass-bound wooden rod{hair puller?},vermillion,textile remnants,silver brooch,French "perfume" bottle sherds,brooches,musket ball and deposit of vermillion,triggerguard,brass sideplate,lock,ans ramrod holder fom British {Northwest}trade gun stamped [17]62,earrrings bobs,French gunflints,vermillion painted barrel of 1762 gun,pipe tomahawk, ferrules,trigger,butt plate various other items which show clearly that the occupant of grave no.4 was a warrior and therefore a male.
I'll be at Ti come on over ,you know where I camp,next to Kenny in the Indian camp next to the French camp.I'll know your face but don't recognize the name.What group do you fight with? |
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wlogwihlas
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 6:29:09 PM
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| The Woodland Confederacy, same with Alikws. Thanks for the explanation, i should have thought that deep. wlogwihlas/ Walker |
hollow square...Now!!!
You probably are wondering why we are all gathered here today.
Look boys, we captured an "it". |
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Okwaho
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 8:05:46 PM
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Which branch of the Confederacy?I heard they splt up again.
Tom |
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wlogwihlas
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 9:39:52 PM
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| Sad right, the same problem that lost America to the europeans, still plagues us. The unability to stick together. I stayed with original Woodland Confederacy. We didn't really break up, some people just left. Oh well, were all still good friends. Wlogwihlas |
hollow square...Now!!!
You probably are wondering why we are all gathered here today.
Look boys, we captured an "it". |
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Okwaho
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Posted - January 13 2005 : 10:15:37 PM
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Sudequist or Roger or Many Flags. I knew Effinger and then Brevik pulled out. Who is heading up the original Confederacy? I saw pictures of Sudequist and Many Flags and maybe Roger from Necessity Are you and Alikws in any of them?
Tom |
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wlogwihlas
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 11:01:09 AM
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| Many Flags retired as chief and left, aswell as Norm Sadaques (spelling?), his brother Ron stayed. We have no chief right now and run under a Elder system, which is very good. I dont think we went to Necessity, I registered for it but we did another event. Sadoquest was there though. |
hollow square...Now!!!
You probably are wondering why we are all gathered here today.
Look boys, we captured an "it". |
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alikws
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 3:09:08 PM
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roger was at necesity, then returned and went to michigan grand encampment... a few of us were there... breakups were more subgroups leaving to do a tighter impression {deleware, mohawk village of ?? during date range} then eastern woodlands... the current group is mostly abenaki...
on graves, besides burial items, differences in bone structure show ethnic origin, race, age and sex... cremations not involving dinosaur products and mecanical crushing leave recognosable bone fragments...
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 3:27:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wlogwihlas
Many Flags retired as chief and left...
Surely this is not the same Many Flags who resides in Mohicanland? Are there two Many Flags? |
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Okwaho
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 4:47:31 PM
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| I doubt it. We were referring to Rick Salazar who lives in Glens Falls N.Y.and portrays an Abenaki warrior |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
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Posted - January 14 2005 : 7:53:42 PM
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Ahhhh... then there are two! I was beginning to wonder if our own cousin Many Flags of the MacWilliam clan was leading a double life!
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"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Lurking Huron4273
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Posted - February 12 2005 : 12:30:10 AM
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| how would there have been time to retrieve and cremate the bodies before sundown...i think they were left as they lay in this case because quite frankly i think there was no village to take them to and hardly any customs left for a vanishing people to observe...not that the mohicans are actually gone...but in the movie they were supposed to be... |
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Were they ashes?
