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Blindman
Lost in the Wilderness
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 06 2004
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 Posted - June 06 2004 : 07:55:38 AM
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I need a bit of help here. I'm researching the novel LOTM in respect to the historical background. This site and board have been a lot of help already. I'm still confused about a couple of things. I already know about the confusion between Mahican and Mohegan, but there's the Delaware issue as well. Chingachgook is described as a Delaware chief and Uncas and Chingachgook speak Delaware among each other. Is this not a different tribe, with a distinct language?
Thanks
Blindman
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - June 07 2004 : 11:39:09 PM
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The Mahican, Mohican, and the Delawares (Munsees or Wolves, Unalachtigos or Turkeys, and Unamis or Turtles, all speak Algonkin as do my Shawnees. About forty tribes from West to East speak Algonkin. Blackfoot, Cheyenne, Sac and Fox, Illinois, Chippewa, Ojibwa, Abenaki, Kickapoo, are but a few of them.
We are all Lenni-Lenape or "Original People" who migrated across the Berring Strait about fifteen thousand years ago. This was the "return trip", since we had to leave when the last ice age came. About fifteen thousand years ago, the ice receeded and we came back home. The buffalo came home with us, as well as the eagles. We have been in North America for about fifty thousand years total. White anthropologists will argue with us, but we ignore the idiots.
Delaware is not an Indian word, since Governor De-La-War founded the state of Delaware, the poor Unamis living along the river named for the governor, got stuck with his name.
Hope this info. helps you.
Ken Lonewolf / Shawnee-White Madoc-Seneca-Oneida |
Ken Lonewolf |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - June 09 2004 : 2:22:07 PM
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Also included in the Algonkin speakers: Montagnais, Pottawattomie, Miami (Twightwees) , Peoria, Pea, Piankashaw, Kaskakia, Menominee, Sheshtapoosh, Secoffee, Micmac, Melisceet, Etchemin, Massachussetts, Nanticoke, Powhatan, Pampticoke, Peqout, Narraganset,Pascatawy, and the Gros Ventre.
The Iroquois speakers were primarily the Six Nations: Mohawk, Onandaga, Seneca, Cayuga, Oneida and Tuscarora. Also the Erie and Huron (Wyandots), and Susquehannocks. There are more.
The Siouxan speakers were mainly in the west: Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, Hidatsa, Mandan and a few others. The Catawba and Waccama in the east as well.
There were many other separate languages, but the above were the three main linguistic groups.
My Shawnees on the Allegheny spoke a combination of Algonkin and Welsh, people who came here 322 years before Columbus got lost at sea.
They merged with the Shawnees probably as early as the 1300's.
There are five distinct groups of Shawnees. I am of the Kispokotha group (the Dept. of War). Shawnee or Shawanogi, means the "Southerners". We lived on the Savannah (Shavanna) River at one time prior to the mid 1700's when we located to Pennsylvannia to be with our Lenape brothers. We left the Savannah area because the white settlers were stealing our women and children and putting them in slavery. They were being sold as far away as Spain and Morroco.
Ken Lonewolf / Shawnee
P.S. I will be at the 250th anniversary of the Battle of Fort Necessity, July 3-4, hope to see some of you there. |
Ken Lonewolf |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
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September 03 2003
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Posted - July 28 2004 : 4:11:42 PM
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We are all Lenni-Lenape or "Original People" who migrated across the Berring Strait about fifteen thousand years ago. This was the "return trip", since we had to leave when the last ice age came. About fifteen thousand years ago, the ice receeded and we came back home. The buffalo came home with us, as well as the eagles. We have been in North America for about fifty thousand years total. White anthropologists will argue with us, but we ignore the idiots.
-lonewolf
Are there any books out that do a good job describing the extended history of Native peoples? I would love to learn more details of this story. |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - August 29 2004 : 10:11:07 PM
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Get a copy of the wallum olum. Wennawoods publications in Pennsylvania publishes one. Check them out on thr internet.
Ken Lonewolf |
Ken Lonewolf |
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true lenape eela
Lost in the Wilderness
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January 03 2005
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Posted - January 03 2005 : 11:51:40 AM
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some would say that this walum olam is inaccurate and false cousin. i follow lenape history very closely and youre correct in saying our languages are basically the same , not all words but we could trade! the lenapes and mohicans are so closely related that we share the same clans. wolves, turkeys and turtles. the stockbridge munsee mohicans from wisconsin have a bear clan. instaed we have a christian cross symol on ours in that place. is it suppossed to be there. absolutely not. it was put their in the sixtees when the tribal seal was made up. i just think we have the 3 clans. i was horrified to watch the movie and have the movie make them out to be mohicans , when later on i read the book and they are delawares like me. how horrid. did the producer of the movie just think we wouldnt catch on to his mistake? what a jack ass i say.i wish i could thump his skull.you have insulted our tribe with that movie crackheads!!
lonewolf i have studied the walum olam and i have spoken with our tribal elders and tribal linguist jim rememter. the language used in may of the birch bark scrolls do not match up. what language are they if they are not lenape? who the hell knows. it is not our language though.!!!!! some yes, some no. and who told about shawnees speaking a mix of algonquin and welsh.?? i believe you should ask the shawnees here in oklahoma about that. i swear they'll disagree with you . are you united remnant band anyways? just curious as to your true tribal affiliation my friend.need to clarify that up. wanishi inabi levi |
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - January 11 2005 : 10:57:02 PM
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True Lenape,
My grandmother still spoke the Shawnee and Welsh, but did not pass either on to her eleven children. They had to hide their heritage here in the east. Sad! I also question the Wallum Olum.
Some say it was faked by a white man, but no-one knows for sure. Our people hid in the mountains of Pennsylvania to avoid removal to Oklahoma. Most of us from my home area north of Pittsburgh, Pa. are Kispokotha (I've seen different spellings). A lot of our Munsee brothers are starting to come out of the woodwork, as well. In the 1700's, there were four Shawnee towns on the river where I was born north of Pittsburgh. Much has been lost. The whites took everything. I was told by my mother that we are Wolf Clan. Problem is, I share blood of the Oneida and Seneca, as well as the Shawnee, but that lineage is on my maternal grandfather's side. Where does the Wolf Clan come in? It's there somewhere. We were severely "put-down" by the whites in this area after the War of 1812. It's a wonder that any of us admits to who we really are. Some won't. I am also mixed with white. My 4x great-grandfather was Chief of the Oneida in the late 1700's and early 1800's.
Since the Shawnee are so scattered, I really don't belong to any of the "recognized" bands. None of my over one-hundred Shawnee cousins are recognized either. As far as I am concerned, I don't need a white gov't. to recognize me. We didn't ask the Europeans to come here, and we didn't ask them to make all the rules in their favor. "Grandfather" knows who I am! To hell with white "recognition".
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Ken Lonewolf |
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grullo
Lost in the Wilderness
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January 15 2005
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Posted - January 15 2005 : 12:43:04 AM
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Lonewolf
Actually you can't blame white people for recognition. The government recognizes tribes, it is then up to the tribe to recognize the individual. It is different from tribe to tribe, first one usually has to have a cdib or certificate of degree of Indian blood to enroll.Some tribes require a member to Have as much as 1/4 blood some 1/16 and so on. I have heard of different requirements as well.
Grullo |
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Bull
Lost in the Wilderness
USA
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January 24 2004
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Posted - January 22 2005 : 12:01:56 PM
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| Lone Wolf, a correction, saying Lenni Lennape is like saying French Frenchman. It is simply the Lenape. |
Catch ye down the trail, Bull |
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Redbird
Pioneer
USA
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August 25 2004
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Posted - February 01 2005 : 12:57:08 PM
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I am certainly not an authority on this subject: but I think I do remember reading the term "Lenni Lennape" more than once over the years. I'm wondering if it is perhaps more of a literary creation/embellishment, or something that comes from an anachronistic or more regional source - now more out of the current usage.
I did have a question for our some of the Shawnee members, though. My own lineage is largely Irish, combined with some Scottish and German. I've studied our own little LOTM area of history for many years now, and this is where my question comes in. I married into a family that has a lot of Indian blood. Certain of our members could easily pass for straight European, but others are quite obviously Indian in appearance. I guess I'm only mentioning this as evidence that the bloodline is indeed a strong one. Anyway, everyone in the family that has any clue (and I'm afraid that's all it is) is sure they are of Cherokee descent. However, it's been my experience that most of the folks East of the Mississippi that claim Indian blood invariably say they are Cherokee. I know the Cherokee were a widespread and populous group: but I think this might be an easy answer for not having done a more thorough research of their background. My husband's family has roots that go back to before the War for Independence, and they hail from places like the Carolinas, Virginia, and later - Tennessee and Kentucky. They have Indian ancestors on both the maternal and paternal line. I realize that any intermarriage occurred at different times and places, so it's hard to be sure - but I think it's really likely there's some Shawnee ancestry in there too. The Shawnee were easily as influential in many of these areas as the Cherokee were, and I'm wondering why they don't come up more often when people cite their Indian ancestors. Do the removals (both Cherokee and Shawnee) have some reason to do with this, that "modern" families no longer remember? Is it because the Shawnee remained actively militant in some areas, or because the Cherokee are a wellknown example of "assimilation" (that as we know, resulted disastrously in "The Trail of Tears")? In other words, at some point in the past, was it "safer" not to say you had Shawnee blood? I know the wars in KY and parts of our state (Indiana) were very bloody; and wonder of this comes into it? My own sense is that we do have some Shawnee blood in our family: and I wonder where one starts to look for that, when everyone else may have by now accepted this "party line" that "We're Cherokee"... Any thoughts on this are most welcome.
Redbird
P.S. Lonewolf - It's been so long since I've had a chance to get back to Mohicanland and some of the forums: but I'm glad someone else recognized and appreciated Alan Eckert's (sp?) work. His writings made the time and place come so much more alive for me than hours of some classes did! |
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Mahican, Mohegan, Delaware?
