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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
 Posted - July 04 2004 : 9:59:30 PM
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I GIVE YOU THESE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO EARS.
I GIVE YOU THESE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO EARS.
The end. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 04 2004 : 10:03:25 PM
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I GIVE YOU THESE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO EARS.
I GIVE YOU THESE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO EARS.
The End. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 04 2004 : 10:06:26 PM
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I GIVEYOU THESE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO EARS.
I GIVE YOU THESE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO EARS.
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 05 2004 : 12:21:11 PM
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Pretty low, Wiggs. An egregious fraud even by your standards, though I can't say that anybody's surprised.
R. Larsen
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Edited by - Anonymous Poster8169 on July 05 2004 12:30:37 PM |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 05 2004 : 9:41:03 PM
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Former Custer Battlefield Park Ranger, Mardell of the Crow Tribe saw two Indian warrior spirits sitting on their horses on the battlefield in 1980. If one believes, anything is possible. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 06 2004 : 10:35:04 AM
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You falsified an Indian perspective. I don't think most Indians would take kindly to that kind of abduction of their identity.
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 06 2004 : 8:45:29 PM
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Rain-in-the-Face:
"All of us who were mounted and ready immediately down the stream toward the ford. There were Ogallalas, Minneconjous, Cheyennes, and some Unkpapas, and those around me seemed to be nearly all very young men.
'Behold, there is among us a young woman! I shouted, 'Let no young man hide behind her garment' I knew that would make those young men brave.
The woman was Tashenamani, or Moving Robe Woman, whose brother had just been killed inthe fight with three stars." |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 07 2004 : 9:29:14 PM
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Hollow Horn Bear:
"It was hard to hear the women singing the death-song for the men killed and for the wailing because their children were shot while they played in the camp. It was a big fight; the soldiers got just what they deserved this time." |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 08 2004 : 9:48:41 PM
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Rain-in-the-Face:
"Many lies have been told of me. Some say that I killed the Chief, and others that I cut out the heart of his brother (Tom Custer), because he had caused me to be imprisoned. Why, in that fight the excitement was so great that we scarcely recognized our nearest friends! Everything was done like lightening. After the battle we young men were chasing horses all over the prairie, while the old men and women plundered the bodies; and if mutilating was done, it was by the old men." |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - July 09 2004 : 06:26:29 AM
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| Wiggs you make the Indians sound like fugitives from a Shakespearean play. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 10 2004 : 9:13:54 PM
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Rain-in-the Face:
"I have lived peaceably ever since we came upon the reservation. No one can say that Rain-in-the-Face has broken the rules of the Great Father. I fought for my people and my country. When we were conquered I remained silent, as a warrior should. Rain-in-the-Face was killed when he put down his weapons before the Great Father. His spirit was gone then; only his poor body lived on, but now it is almost ready to lie down for the last time. Ho, hechetu!(It is well.") |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - July 11 2004 : 1:08:28 PM
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Not Shakespeare. Rather, in the manner that 19th century white men thought Noble Savages should speak in English. You have to imagine these quotes over the End of the Trail painting to get the desired effect. It's hard to believe that these grammatical constructs could exist in a nomadic society that had no need for them. It is exactly the sort of language that one finds in the bad English Etonian wanna-be writing before WWI rather than in a mobile society cooking dog for dinner.
Of course, as with Chief Joseph who was not a chief, sometimes the quotes were just fabricated in the sure knowledge hardly anyone could or would complain. Most scholarly translation of Indian languages contains a lot of "in the sense of...." addenda for many of the syllables, suggesting that translation was not a science. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 11 2004 : 10:44:49 PM
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Wild is correct, Shakespeare created narratives of human tragedy like no other before him. What works of art could he have created had he known of Wounded Knee?
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 12 2004 : 9:10:29 PM
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Tashunkewitko (Crazy Horse)
"When Custer made his charge the women, children, and all that were not fighters made a stampede in a northerly direction. Custer seeing so numerous a body, mistook them for the main body of Indians retreating and abandoning their village, and immediately gave pursuit." |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 18 2004 : 8:58:06 PM
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"The man who led those troops must have been drunk or crazy. He had the camp at his mercy, and could have killed us all or driven us away naked on the prairie."
Mrs. Spotted Horn Bull regarding Reno's "charge." |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 23 2004 : 5:35:55 PM
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| George Magpie on a heavy sheet of plate metal steel, in 1988, spot-welded these words: "In honor of our Indian Patriots who fought and defeated the US Cavalry in order to save our women and children from mass murder. In doing so preserving rights to our homelands, treaties and sovereignty." That steel plate is now kept in the visitors' center. |
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bhist
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - July 24 2004 : 11:56:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
George Magpie on a heavy sheet of plate metal steel, in 1988, spot-welded these words: "In honor of our Indian Patriots who fought and defeated the US Cavalry in order to save our women and children from mass murder. In doing so preserving rights to our homelands, treaties and sovereignty." That steel plate is now kept in the visitors' center.
That is true, but the rest of the story went like this.
Russell Means and his henchmen charged up Last Stand Hill on horseback (horses are not allowed on the battlefield). As Russell Means spewed his lies, his thugs began to dig into the mass grave. They dug deep; they poured cheap fast acting cement and laid the crude plaque with Magpie's words on the grave. Then, they left.
Neil Mangum and I showed up about half an hour after Means was gone. Neil looked down at the plaque and the first words out of his mouth were, "If they had dug just a few inches more, they would've struck bone."
During the Indian Memorial dedication on June 25, 2003 Means showed up unannounced, as usual, and spread more lies about himself and his thugs. The SOB said this, "If our people had known that it was a mass grave, we would not have dug into it." Yea, right, weasel Means. For as long as I've been going to the battlefield there have been brown NPS signs (that we all recognize from any NPS site) around four points of the grave that state, "Mass Grave, Please Keep Off."
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Warmest Regards,
Bob
www.vonsworks.com
www.friendslittlebighorn.com
www.friendsnezpercebattlefields.org |
Edited by - bhist on July 24 2004 11:57:47 AM |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 24 2004 : 8:53:20 PM
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| Bob, once again I am indebted to you for complete and factual information. I believe that Means is the worst possible representative of the Indian perspective. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 25 2004 : 12:25:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Bob, once again I am indebted to you for complete and factual information. I believe that Means is the worst possible representative of the Indian perspective.
Means is a provocateur; tasteless and crass a lot of the time, but he can speak sense if he's in the right mood, and cameras aren't nearby. He's not the worst possible (self-appointed) representative; he's more a Jesse Jackson than an Al Sharpton.
R. Larsen
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bhist
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - July 25 2004 : 3:38:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Poster8169
quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Bob, once again I am indebted to you for complete and factual information. I believe that Means is the worst possible representative of the Indian perspective.
Means is a provocateur; tasteless and crass a lot of the time, but he can speak sense if he's in the right mood, and cameras aren't nearby. He's not the worst possible (self-appointed) representative; he's more a Jesse Jackson than an Al Sharpton.
R. Larsen
Actually, you're wrong 8169. I've spoken one-on-one with Means without cameras or press around and he's even more an idiot when he's being himself than when he's performing for the camera. |
Warmest Regards,
Bob
www.vonsworks.com
www.friendslittlebighorn.com
www.friendsnezpercebattlefields.org |
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movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - July 25 2004 : 4:34:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
That steel plate is now kept in the visitors' center.
The sign was up in the Indian Memorial for the dedication last year. If it was displayed at the visitors' center this year, it is quite well hidden. What I found more interesting are the various tokens people leave at the rebar "Spirit Warriors" sculpture. Medicine bags, feathers, flowers, do-rags, and baseball caps. I'm pretty sure NPS logs and keeps all offerings, not unlike what is done at the Vietnam Memorial in DC. It appears that for the Native Americans LBH, it was a war of brave individuals, rather than a cohesive unit, so perhaps individuals remembering those who fought in 1876 is a more fitting tribute ...
hoka hey ...
Movingrobe |
movingrobe |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 25 2004 : 6:12:16 PM
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Actually, you're wrong 8169. I've spoken one-on-one with Means without cameras or press around and he's even more an idiot when he's being himself than when he's performing for the camera.
Well, I said it also depended on if he's in the right mood. I don't have much regard for him, no more than I do for Jackson, but he's not a complete chasm of ineptitude; he sees rechristening Indians "Native Americans" for the PC nonsense that it is, for example, and absent the booming rhetoric (which is a major turn-off) a lot of his views are pretty much libertarian. It could easily be a lot worse --- my sole point.
R. Larsen
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bhist
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
Posted - July 25 2004 : 7:43:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Poster8169
quote:
Actually, you're wrong 8169. I've spoken one-on-one with Means without cameras or press around and he's even more an idiot when he's being himself than when he's performing for the camera.
Well, I said it also depended on if he's in the right mood. I don't have much regard for him, no more than I do for Jackson, but he's not a complete chasm of ineptitude; he sees rechristening Indians "Native Americans" for the PC nonsense that it is, for example, and absent the booming rhetoric (which is a major turn-off) a lot of his views are pretty much libertarian. It could easily be a lot worse --- my sole point.
R. Larsen
You're right, he could be worse. Unfortunately, Means places himself at the forefront of Indian spokesmen even when the position is not given to him.
My conversations with him were rather disappointing. I expected a man of extreme intelligence and original thought, but he's not.
He forces himself into your face (figuratively) to get his way and when you give it to him, he throws his face right back at you.
He's a liar, I caught him at it and even then, he still denies it to your face. He's lost the respect of many in the Indian community. When he spoke at the Indian Memorial dedication the majority of Indians in the audience ignored him.
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Warmest Regards,
Bob
www.vonsworks.com
www.friendslittlebighorn.com
www.friendsnezpercebattlefields.org |
Edited by - bhist on July 25 2004 7:45:12 PM |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 26 2004 : 9:50:08 PM
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After so many years of injustice, dehumanization, and degradation, men and women shouted "No More." Individually provoked, they rose in a swell of emotion and conviction and shouted, "Hoke Hey, Hoke Hey, Hoke Hey." Thus, an undulation of righteous outrage
crashed against the obstinate ones who, needlessly, lost their lives along with their Red Brethren.
J.W. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 28 2004 : 9:14:40 PM
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Two Moon:
"but one man rides up and down the line-al the time shouting. He rode a sorrel horse with white face and white fore-legs. I don't know who he was. He was a brave man."
Who was this soldier? |
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Rain In The Face
