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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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 Posted - January 13 2004 : 8:00:20 PM
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The former Secretary of the Treasury, Paul O'Neill (former head of ALCOA, and resident of my hometown, Pittsburgh), is bashing the President in his new book concerning his tour as 'SecTres'. The problem is twofold. First, some of the documents used, and shown on the news, were stamped 'Secret' and 'Classified'. This could spell legal trouble for Mr. O'Neill, since I am sure he signed a non-disclosure agreement upon his appointment. This could put his patrician patotie in something of a bind.
Secondly, now he is starting to back-pedal on some of his earlier statements, particularly the one about the President being the blind man in a room full of deaf people; in reference to the former secretary's description of cabinet meetings. He also stated that he will more than likely vote to re-elect the President this November. Sounds more like line-dancing, than clear, coherant thoughts and ideals.
What are your thoughts?
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
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"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
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September 03 2003
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Posted - January 13 2004 : 8:31:57 PM
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Funny how everyone loves O'Neill until he bad-mouths Bush. Good for him. I noticed the President didn't have much to say about his accusations at the press conference in Mexico on monday. In fact he looked as if someone kicked his favorite puppy. O'Neill probably has some good dirt tucked away. Apparently the administration must have dirt on him also otherwise he wouldn't be "back-peddling". I'm sick of people criticizing this administration and then either getting raked over the coals or called unpatriotic. The former administration took plenty of heat over 8 years, no one was calling those dissenters unpatriotic. But then the Clinton admistration was always wrong, right? That's why it wasn't wrong to question them whereas questioning our current administration makes you subversive.
I'm sure nothing will come of it, if you like Bush, you'll like him even more for taking all of this "unfair criticism". If you don't like Bush you'll just assume O'Neill was calling it like he saw it.
As far as the documents go there were only cover sheets stamped secret, no documents attached. Not an issue. Or maybe that's just liberal media bias.
So far as I see it, no problems. Just a little criticism of the holy, unquestionable, noble, and righteous Bush Administration |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - January 13 2004 : 11:12:05 PM
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quote:
The former administration took plenty of heat over 8 years, no one was calling those dissenters unpatriotic.
No Susquesus, they usually ended up under a "random" IRS audit, have there careers ruined, or worse. (remember Vince Foster and Ft. Marcy Park?) Of course, the Clinton's blamed everything on 'talk radio' or a 'vast right-wing conspiracy'.
quote:
But then the Clinton admistration was always wrong, right?
Lets take a look at some figures:
Below excerpt from:
The Progressive Review
Saturday, Aug. 12, 2000
As the Democrats' torch (as well as their contributor lists and FBI files) is passed to Al Gore, we thought we'd bring you up to date on our Clinton scandal statistics. Please note that, much as with the Census, the collection of such data is a daunting task, made all the more difficult by the failure of the corporate media to show any interest in it.
Notes: Some of the data have not been updated recently and thus understate conditions. In certain areas, such as anomalous deaths, the Progressive Review has used an extremely conservative count. It is important in considering these incidents to bear in mind the following:
1. The fact that anomalies need to be investigated further carries no presumption of how a death actually occurred, only that there remain serious questions that require answers.
2. The possibility of foul play must be taken seriously in a major criminal conspiracy in which more than two score individuals and firms have already been convicted and more than 100 witnesses have pleaded the Fifth Amendment or fled the country.
3. If foul play did occur in any of these cases, that fact by itself does not carry the presumption that the White House was involved. Given the footprints of organized crime, drug trade, foreign espionage and intelligence agencies on the trail of the Clinton story, such an assumption would be ill advised.
The Progressive Review welcomes corrections and additions and plans to publish a more definitive version on the occasion upon the departure of the Clinton administration. It is also planning a list of those journalists and public officials who performed best and worst during this egregious period of American history. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
Administration Records Set
- The only president ever impeached strictly on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most convictions and guilty pleas
- Most Cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most witnesses to die suddenly
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
Historical Context
- Number of independent counsel inquiries since the 1978 law was passed: 19
- Number that have produced indictments: 7
- Number that produced more convictions than the Starr investigation: 1
- Median length of investigations that have led to convictions: 44 months
- Length of Starr-Ray investigation (7/00): 67 months.
- Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions to date (including one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners): 15
- Median cost per Starr investigation conviction: $3.5 million as of 3/00
- Total cost of the Starr investigation (3/00) $52 million
- Total cost of the Iran-Contra investigation: $48.5 million
- Number of Clinton Cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 5
- Number of Reagan cabinet members who came under criminal investigati |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
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Posted - January 13 2004 : 11:24:24 PM
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| That's wild. Well, I'm glad O'Neill is making noise. I'm sure it's just a blatant attempt to make cash for his new book, but it's been entertaining. I hope he doesn't get beat up or anything. |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - January 13 2004 : 11:47:29 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by susquesus
That's wild. Well, I'm glad O'Neill is making noise. I'm sure it's just a blatant attempt to make cash for his new book, but it's been entertaining. I hope he doesn't get beat up or anything.
[/quote
O'Neill should not have to worry about the consequences for telling the truth.
The Administration is apparently using the old communist tactic of "accusing the accuser". By having its supporters claim that O'Neil is......disloyal,disgruntled,prissy(fill in the blank)they are adroitly shielding themselves from well deserved criticism.
I do believe that GW had wanted to go into Iraq from day one.The U.S.Army War College issued a report that stated that Iraq was a distraction from the "War on Terror".
If GW wants to go after somebody,it should be former president Bill Clinton.Even if he chose to ignore the dead bodies that have been piling up around "Slick Willie" over the years, at the very least,he could charge HIM with perjury. |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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Posted - January 14 2004 : 01:20:19 AM
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quote:
I do believe that GW had wanted to go into Iraq from day one.
Well Captain, I do believe you are right there. The President recognized the threat that both his father and his father's successor failed to neutralize. Even President Clinton made public remarks in regards to his concern over Saddam Hussein, and his WMD program, around 1998. Like Bush the Elder, Clinton failed to act decisively on it, prefering to let the U.N. handle things (Big mistake, you never send a boy to do a man's job).
Either way, it had to be done, and time will show that it was the right thing to do. Just take a look at how much heat the President had taken over the tax cuts, former secretary O'Neill argued against it publicly (Which rightfully heralded his downfall). Well, with an 8.2% GDP it looks like O'Neill was wrong. If this guy can't get his facts straight concerning his 'specialty', what makes anyone believe he is the least bit credible in his opinions on the administration's foreign policy?
quote:
The U.S.Army War College issued a report that stated that Iraq was a distraction from the "War on Terror".
That was one report, Captain. One report submitted by one staff officer or civilian "GS" type. One report written by a person who deals in therory, and not practical experience. You know some folks 'over there', as do I, just ask them if what we have done was just "a diversion from the main mission", I have a feeling that they would disagree.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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Posted - January 14 2004 : 04:00:44 AM
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P.S. Now gentlemen, the above being said, I will agree with you on one point. Mr. O'Neill does have the right to speak out and hock his book, the question remains if he will be as receptive to critisim of his work (and/or book), as he was in laying blame for his own downfall at the feet of the President.
The only problem I have is the documents that he presented to the media. Think about this, non-disclosure agreements have been a fact of life in the corporate world for well over ten years. Do you think that Mr. O'Neill, while CEO of ALCOA, would have tolerated a dismissed department head using classified corporate documents as the basis for a 'tell all' book? How long do you think that it would take for Mr. O'Neill to sic his company 'land-sharks' on the offending ex-executive?
Just some more food for thought...
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
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February 04 2003
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Posted - January 14 2004 : 04:05:46 AM
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Saddam Hussein was only useful to Bill Clinton when he was called onto the carpet concerning Monica Lewinski. In that matter he could blast Iraq in order to divert the public's attention.
I would love to be able to talk to all of the Americans who were killed over this,to see their thoughts on the matter.Unfortunately,they're less vocal than anybody else over there these days.
"They're dead Burke! Do you have any idea what you've done here!?"
Aliens 1986 |
Highlander |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - January 14 2004 : 04:14:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtMunro
quote:
I do believe that GW had wanted to go into Iraq from day one.
Well Captain, I do believe you are right there. The President recognized the threat that both his father and his father's successor failed to neutralize. Even President Clinton made public remarks in regards to his concern over Saddam Hussein, and his WMD program, around 1998. Like Bush the Elder, Clinton failed to act decisively on it, prefering to let the U.N. handle things (Big mistake, you never send a boy to do a man's job).
Either way, it had to be done, and time will show that it was the right thing to do. Just take a look at how much heat the President had taken over the tax cuts, former secretary O'Neill argued against it publicly (Which rightfully heralded his downfall). Well, with an 8.2% GDP it looks like O'Neill was wrong. If this guy can't get his facts straight concerning his 'specialty', what makes anyone believe he is the least bit credible in his opinions on the administration's foreign policy?
quote:
The U.S.Army War College issued a report that stated that Iraq was a distraction from the "War on Terror".
That was one report, Captain. One report submitted by one staff officer or civilian "GS" type. One report written by a person who deals in therory, and not practical experience. You know some folks 'over there', as do I, just ask them if what we have done was just "a diversion from the main mission", I have a feeling that they would disagree.
Your Most Humble Servant,
I would also feel really bad if somebody that we knew over there got killed for no reason in a stupid war.Especially by a President who got out of going to Vietnam when it was his turn to go.Besides,it is hard for me to get excited about this war,when I'm still fighting the last one. |
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Highlander
Colonial Militia
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - January 14 2004 : 04:28:28 AM
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quote:
I'm still fighting the last one.
You and me both, Brother. Some days are better than others...
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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Posted - January 14 2004 : 6:19:14 PM
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quote:
That's wild.
You are right, Susquesus, and that article did not even go in depth enough. For instance, the line improper exports of sensitive technology, did not elaborate on what kind of technology. What it consisted of was high speed computers, used in the machining of Plutonium cores for W-88 nuclear warheads, the same technology also is used in the guidence algorhythms (sic) for weapon systems like the Peacekeeper MX ICBM. So "The Man From Hope", managed to give the Chi-Coms not only a bigger bang, but a better targeting system. For somebody who has been in search of a "legacy" the last few years, I think I have found it for him.
You may be wondering how he pulled it off, well the deal was routed through the Commerce Department (before Ron Brown's "accidental" death), so that it could avoid congressional oversight. Pretty frightening stuff, huh? That is why I shudder at the thought of "what could have been", if Al Gore would have won in 2000. This was a cat who's father was really tight with Armand Hammer, the infamous 'back door deal-man' with the old Soviet Union and all-around shaddy actor.
Now, as much as I may respect President Bush, he is not beyond my critique either. For one thing, I totally disagree with his imigration policy and how "buddy, buddy" he is with El Presidente Fox of Mexico. I do not trust El Primo Fox at all, for one thing he talks about opening our southern border, while posting his army in a 'lock-down' detail with his own southern border to prevent imigration into Mexico from Central America.
Fox's country is one of where the army can bust down your door and visit violence upon you and your family for no reason. Where their police departments are riddled so much with corruption, that they make the New Orleans P.D. of the late-80's look like the Boy Scouts. And the judges are bought and sold like used cars, so that "justice" goes to the highest bidder. I will not even go into the reported gun battles between our own Border Patrol and the Mexican "Authorities", most of it is hushed-up by the current, and previous administrations.
Yeah, I really want to open the border to those folks. If you ask me, why don't President Bush follow El Presidente Fox's lead? You know, use our military to lock-down our own southern border. I'll tell you why he doesn't, he wants to keep the flow of cheap labor coming into our country, so that non-skilled wages can be kept artifically low and not be dictated by the market. Its a payoff, pure and simple, and no, I do not approve of that.
The other reason I disagree with the President's imigration "amnesty" program for ILLEGAL ALIENS (There I said it, not politically correct, but factually based), is because the crime problems that some illegals cause. Did you know that over 60% of the violent crimes in the border states are perpetrated by illegal aliens? I didn't, till I did some digging in DOJ periodicals, and it causes me great concern.
Now, President Bush is doing a great job dealing with Islamic Terrorists, but he needs to get his head out of the 'up-and-locked' position when dealing with the terrorists from down south of the border.
Just some more of my thoughts...
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
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Posted - January 14 2004 : 11:49:52 PM
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"That's wild"
I'm sure there's a lot of truth to it but I must admit I took the conspiracy list a lot more seriously until I realized that it came from Princeton, a bastion for young Republicans. It's propaganda. Of course they're gonna have a laundry list of problems with Clinton. The east coast ivy-league schools are the breeding ground of the nations wealthy elite. I guess that's some "conservative media-bias" for you. I bet the UC Berkeley crowd can come up with a doozy of a Bush list if they put their minds to it. In the meantime here's a hot one:
http://www.house.gov/appropriations_democrats/caughtonfilm.htm |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
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Posted - January 15 2004 : 12:45:03 AM
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Apparently the controversial documents that O'Neill gave to his co-writer were released to him on cd by a member of the treasury's legal department. They had been combed through and approved before they were given to him. He wasn't carting out boxes of top secret files.
The line he's catching so much heat for, describing Bush as "a blind man in a room full of deaf people" is entertaining if not professional. I listened to an hour long interview with him tonight and he stated that he regrets saying it, that he spoke in the heat of the moment. He was not horribly critical of the administration personally, it was his co-author and the interviewer that seemed most interested in taking shots at the white house. He even disagreed with several over the top accusations. Again, I'm the book is out there and that the discussion is taking place. |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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Posted - January 15 2004 : 02:10:21 AM
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quote:
I'm sure there's a lot of truth to it but I must admit I took the conspiracy list a lot more seriously until I realized that it came from Princeton, a bastion for young Republicans.
Yeah, but it doesn't change the facts. Call it what you want, the listed items were all documented incidents. Besides, if you wish to correct the writer, contact him with the facts, the preamble of his article says as much.
quote:
I guess that's some "conservative media-bias" for you.
I prefer to think of it as "equal time", in response to (choose one) New York Times, Pittsburgh Post Gazzette, Atlanta Constitution, etc. And once again, it doesn't change the facts.
quote:
I bet the UC Berkeley crowd can come up with a doozy of a Bush list if they put their minds to it.
I thought they already did, it is called the "CBS Evening News"
quote:
They had been combed through and approved before they were given to him. He wasn't carting out boxes of top secret files.
That remains to be seen...
But, my question remains, what is your opinion of President Bush's "new" imigration policy?
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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susquesus
Mad Hermit of the North Woods
USA
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Posted - January 15 2004 : 03:39:38 AM
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In regards to the political propaganda I have no interest in refuting any "documented incidents" or "facts". I'm just saying that I sincerely doubt there's some overwhelming "Clinton Conspiracy" (or "Bush Conspiracy" for that matter). His opponents got bored and decided to string together a bunch of loosely related incidents and tryed to impress us with the sheer length of the list of innane facts and figures. Many of the items listed were ridiculous, though there are serious allegations sprinkled throughout.
As far as the Mexican immigration issue goes- it's a cheap election year ploy aimed at gaining votes from the hispanic population. Same goes for the talk of the space program. As anxious as I am to see the US back in the space exploration game it's obvious that the administration is trying to please and pull the heart strings of as many voters as possible right now. |
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Kurt
Mohicanite
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Posted - January 15 2004 : 12:34:28 PM
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| The O'Neill interview was interesting. He tries to make most of his statements so thoroughly and so specifically it is no wonder President Bush's eyes would glaze over when O'Neill entered the room. O'Neill's innocence is touching (his thinking that economic decisions should be made for economically technical reasons). I completely believe he actually read all 19,000 (more counting the stuff the Treasury lawyer withheld) documents that passed over his desk. The ghost writer and the interviewer were the only reasons the radio audience was not lulled to sleep. It must have taken centuries for the ghost writer to get that soundbite. |
Yr. obt. svt.
Kurt |
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The "O'Neill Shuffle"
