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richfed
Sachem
USA
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 Posted - March 26 2003 : 05:40:45 AM
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To date, this has been an extraordinary campaign ...
Embedded journalists ... really nothing new, journalists have often accompanied the military into the field, even way back in the Civil War & Plains Indian Wars - and probably before - just never with television cameras before in this fashion ... bring the story - or at least vivid slices of it - right into our homes as it is happening. Incredible.
Precision weapons ... amazing. We have launched/dropped thousands. Such a very few have missed their mark. If this was WWII, we'd have needed thousands upon thousands more bombs dropped to achieve the same effect, and the collateral damage would have been tremendous.
And, the campaign itself ... just several days old & we've penetrated deeply into a country the size of California in record time, suffered so very few casualties, and are beginning to see some very positive signs in our progress.
There is dangerous road to cover ahead ... and more & more the signs we uncover seem to indicate the upcoming possible use of chemical or biological weapons against us. Plus, the irregular forces against us use disturbing tactics. Nothing wrong with hit & run - whatever works - but blending in with the civilian population - knowing our preoccupation with avoiding, as much as is possible, civilian casualties - well, in the end, they will cause us to have to inflict more than we care to. But, that's probably the desired intent. Cause a political backlash. Such irreverance for human life is appalling to me.
Anyway, fascinating events unfold! Apprehensive about what lies ahead within Baghdad.
May we prevail, and quickly.
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
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Posted - March 26 2003 : 07:17:46 AM
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I worry, too, about what lies ahead in Baghdad. A ruthless individual indeed.
I ran into a classmate of my children's yesterday at the post office. She is pregnant with twins due in June and her husband is with the 3rd ID, 3rd brigade. She told me she checks in once or twice a day for news because she cannot bear to watch it 24/7. She told me they have an embedded journalist with them but she wasn't sure which one it was or which network. I know yesterday they were involved with a lot that happened over there. I thanked her for her husband's service. Think I'll go over for a visit in a day or two. |
Theresa |
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Lainey
TGAT
USA
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May 18 2002
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Posted - March 26 2003 : 07:26:35 AM
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quote:
Such irreverance for human life is appalling to me.
That's an incredible statement in light of an American/British invasion of a country in an unjustified attack of their "own time & choosing."
Incredible. |
"Fides et Ratio" |
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
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Posted - March 26 2003 : 08:14:50 AM
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| ...and the dolphins! I had no idea they used these guys. Amazing to me. |
Theresa |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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November 27 2002
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 Posted - March 26 2003 : 12:48:20 PM
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Yes Theresa, these amazing animals have been trained and used by the Navy since the Viet Nam war, for a variety of purposes. Their incredible intelligence and their willingness to do their job, when they could simply swim away and be free, boggles my mind.
Rich, I am very proud of our troops and what they have done thus far. But, you know, I am even more proud of what they are NOT doing (even though it is causing them greater risk):
1. They are not bombing Bagdad, or any other city, into smithereens in order to end the war quicker.
2. They are not purposely bombing areas that are known to be civilian areas (no matter what Iraqi TV claims!).
3. They are not murdering their captured Iraqi soldiers, then showing their bodies on TV.
4. They are not beating or raping their captives, then showing them on TV (no matter what Iraqi TV says or shows!).
5. They are not dressing in civilian clothing, acting friendly, then opening fire on their enemies.
6. They are not showing a white flag, intending to surrender, then opening fire.
7. They are not advancing toward their enemy, holding civilians in front of them.
8. They are not hiding their tanks, ammunition, or equipment in hospitals or schools.
9. They are not preparing to use chemical weapons on an advancing army.
10. They are not planting civilians in buildings and using them as human shields.
11. They are not dressing in their enemy's uniform so they can kill their own troops who are attempting to surrender... then say the enemy did it.
"War is Hell", as Civil War General William T. Sherman said. No matter how hard we try, there are going to be accidents where innocent people die, or our own troops die from "friendly fire." But I am proud to be part of a country that does everything it possibly can to make sure these things don't happen. |
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
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Posted - March 26 2003 : 2:58:56 PM
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| ...and some of the video footage from the embedded reporters showing the humane treatment of the beautiful children of Umm Qasr running toward the coalition forces, with smiles on their faces, for candy and bottled water. |
Theresa |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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May 13 2002
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Posted - March 27 2003 : 05:53:27 AM
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You know, I had hoped that maybe this thread could have escaped the "other stuff" & just talked of the history in the making ... living history, in its truest sense.
Silly me ...
I give up. |
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Theresa
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Posted - March 27 2003 : 07:09:33 AM
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| Don't give up, Rich. There are those who are commenting on the positives (and there are many) of this war. Those voices need to be heard, too. |
Theresa |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - March 27 2003 : 08:20:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by richfed
You know, I had hoped that maybe this thread could have escaped the "other stuff" & just talked of the history in the making ... living history, in its truest sense.
Silly me ...
I give up.
I agree. But I'm not going to give up! I am going to put forth a very polite... very sincere... from the heart... not-in-anger... request. If this upsets anyone, I am truly sorry, and feel free to lambaste me privately.
To the two people above who posted comments in this thread that were Not Supportive of our troops and the war effort:
Dear friends, would you Please... be polite and confine your negative comments to the Lions Den forum, where they belong? Please allow us this one place where we can discuss what is happening, put down our thoughts and prayers without feeling anger and or that we are being "forced" into a defensive position. Can you do that for us... Please?
Thank you very much. 
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
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Posted - March 27 2003 : 09:00:02 AM
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A couple of observations:
These horrific sand storms.  Gees, how in the world do these soldiers do this?! Some of the images make it appear as if they are on Mars. Fortitude indeed I think.
Embedded reporters. These reporters have volunteered to do this so that we can get real time reporting (which makes me a little nervous at times) and a slice of the pie. Some of the stories that have come from them have been fascinating to say the least. I think Rick Leventhal is my new hero! 
Did I say a couple...well one more:
Precision weapons. I'm sure you've all seen the military target that was hit under the bridge. How'd they do that?! Amazing to me.  |
Theresa |
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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
USA
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October 14 2002
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Posted - March 27 2003 : 09:48:40 AM
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So what's the deal with the dolphins? I haven't heard anything about dolphins on the regular broadcast news I've seen. I only get to check in with the news in the morning and late at night. Is this something that was reported on the cable news channels?
As for the embedded reporters, yes it certainly is amazing, but they still report false information at times. Like yesterday they were reporting a rumor that Republican Guard units were on the move toward U.S. troops during the sand storms.
I also missed the target that was hit under the bridge, and I'm not sure where it was, and I'm assuming it was a vehicle. It sounds like it would have to of been taken out by a low flying attack helicopter or a ground unit, probably not a cruise missile as those aren't usually used on vehicles.
Haven't heard much from the 101st and 82nd Airborne in the last few days. I'm sure we'll hear from them soon... |
YMHS,
Connecticut•Ranger
Thomas Thacher
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Theresa
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Posted - March 27 2003 : 10:42:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CT•Ranger
So what's the deal with the dolphins? I haven't heard anything about dolphins on the regular broadcast news I've seen. I only get to check in with the news in the morning and late at night. Is this something that was reported on the cable news channels?
As for the embedded reporters, yes it certainly is amazing, but they still report false information at times. Like yesterday they were reporting a rumor that Republican Guard units were on the move toward U.S. troops during the sand storms.
I also missed the target that was hit under the bridge, and I'm not sure where it was, and I'm assuming it was a vehicle. It sounds like it would have to of been taken out by a low flying attack helicopter or a ground unit, probably not a cruise missile as those aren't usually used on vehicles.
Haven't heard much from the 101st and 82nd Airborne in the last few days. I'm sure we'll hear from them soon...
These reports were from cable news (Fox) rather than regular broadcast news. They are used for their sonar cabability...but please don't ask me to explain how or what or anything. Need to do a little research on that one.
It was noted in today's CentCom briefing that some of the reports we're getting from the embedded reporters are a bit eronious and Brooks pointed to the particular report you speak of.
Wrong on the tank that was under the bridge. It was not taken out by attack helicopter nor was it a ground hit. I'm not sure what city it was in but it was hit by a precision guided missile.
Anyone who can lend light to any of this please do! |
Theresa |
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Theresa
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Doc M
Great Quack Healer of the Frontier
USA
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Posted - March 27 2003 : 11:05:29 AM
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"Living history in the making" by definition has to include what
is so dismissively called "that other stuff," or it tends to be
propaganda rather than history. However, I see that other voices
and other thoughts are not welcome on this topic, even though the
forum is titled "War In Iraq" rather than "America, Love It or
Leave It." So even though I don't recall people who don't run this
Board being given permission to request others...who by the
way have been posters here since this Board was started...to
leave, I will be more than happy to do so. I really don't need
more aggravation in my life at this point, and I damned sure
don't need to be told what to think or feel about all this.
I have never been a mindless cheerleader, and I don't intend to
start now. And it may just surprise you all to know how much
I do love this country and the young soldiers who are sacrificing
themselves for what I consider an unjust cause.
It's been, except for these last few weeks, fun. Goodbye, all.
The Late Great Doc M |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - March 27 2003 : 8:26:17 PM
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I took a peek at the Board earlier today, from another location, as I am sometimes wont to do.
I would have sworn I saw a post by Anthony referring to an email which seemed to imply the board would be closing soon.
It inspired me to open the email account I used to sign on to the board when I returned home. I only look at the account every few months. I did find some old missives from the board, but nothing to this effect. (I also found a "returned" spam email that I of course never sent--apparently someone had "borrowed" my address to do so.)
Now I return here, and Anthony's post is gone. Did I imagine it, or misplace it?
I sincerely hope what he implied wasn't true, but he also implied that it due to Rich and Lainey's parental obligations, which I could certainly understand.
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~~Aim small, miss small. |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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May 13 2002
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Posted - March 28 2003 : 05:54:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc M
"Living history in the making" by definition has to include what
is so dismissively called "that other stuff," or it tends to be
propaganda rather than history. However, I see that other voices
and other thoughts are not welcome on this topic, even though the
forum is titled "War In Iraq" rather than "America, Love It or
Leave It." So even though I don't recall people who don't run this
Board being given permission to request others...who by the
way have been posters here since this Board was started...to
leave, I will be more than happy to do so. I really don't need
more aggravation in my life at this point, and I damned sure
don't need to be told what to think or feel about all this.
I have never been a mindless cheerleader, and I don't intend to
start now. And it may just surprise you all to know how much
I do love this country and the young soldiers who are sacrificing
themselves for what I consider an unjust cause.
It's been, except for these last few weeks, fun. Goodbye, all.
The Late Great Doc M
OMG! Dockie-poo ... To all of you out there, I answered this personally via E-mail, so I won't make too much of this right here, right now ... Just that I love Doc M., she's been here since 1997, and if she truly leaves, no one will miss her more than I. Let me state, too, generally, I personally don't consider anyone unpatriotic just because they don't support this war. We're all entitled to our beliefs on that, and, as long as you support the troops in the field - i.e. wish them no harm - I don't see where anyone's patriotism should be called into question. Trust me, I've been down that road - on the other side - during the Vietnam War years. Not that I agree with this present anti-war stance, but I can to a degree understand.
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Bubar
I would have sworn I saw a post by Anthony referring to an email which seemed to imply the board would be closing soon.
It inspired me to open the email account I used to sign on to the board when I returned home. I only look at the account every few months. I did find some old missives from the board, but nothing to this effect. (I also found a "returned" spam email that I of course never sent--apparently someone had "borrowed" my address to do so.)
Now I return here, and Anthony's post is gone. Did I imagine it, or misplace it?
I sincerely hope what he implied wasn't true, but he also implied that it due to Rich and Lainey's parental obligations, which I could certainly understand.
Hmmmm .... I just found a Private Message to me that said pretty much the same. As some of you know, I've been in Asheville teaching a postal class this week, and my time on the board has been pretty much limited to these early morning visits. So, I've not been completely up-to-snuff. I never saw this post, have no idea what it said or why it was posted/removed, and have made no comments to Anth or anyone else of any intention/desire to close the board.
This is just plain UNTRUE! So, we can put that little rumor to rest.
As for this thread, it was my intention - and hope - that the EVENTS of the war could be discussed here, rather than the POLITICS. That's all. At home, as you might be able to surmise, there is, shall we say, a bit of polarization on this subject. It cannot be brought up with a shouting match arising, and I'm putting that very mildly. The same, to a lesser extent, seems to be occurring on this board ... everywhere the subject is bro |
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Scott Bubar
Colonial Militia
USA
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Posted - March 28 2003 : 10:13:46 AM
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Thanks for clarifying that, Rich. Quite a relief.
quote:
Originally posted by richfed
... Hmmmm .... I just found a Private Message to me that said pretty much the same. As some of you know, I've been in Asheville teaching a postal class this week, and my time on the board has been pretty much limited to these early morning visits. So, I've not been completely up-to-snuff. I never saw this post, have no idea what it said or why it was posted/removed, and have made no comments to Anth or anyone else of any intention/desire to close the board.
This is just plain UNTRUE! So, we can put that little rumor to rest. ...
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Adele
The Huggy Merchant
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Posted - March 28 2003 : 1:47:07 PM
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quote:
[Let me state, too, generally, I personally don't consider anyone unpatriotic just because they don't support this war. We're all entitled to our beliefs on that, and, as long as you support the troops in the field - i.e. wish them no harm - I don't see where anyone's patriotism should be called into question. Trust me, I've been down that road - on the other side - during the Vietnam War years. Not that I agree with this present anti-war stance, but I can to a degree understand.
Hmmmm....I'm confused here...by a number of things (no change there then!)
First, I have not yet seen anyone make a post that could be considered unsupportive of coalition troops or un-patriotic, so I am wondering if I have missed a post.
Second, I don't understand this comment: "be polite and confine your negative comments to the Lions Den forum, where they belong? Please allow us this one place where we can discuss what is happening, put down our thoughts and prayers without feeling anger and or that we are being "forced" into a defensive position". The Lions Den forum is for negative comments??? People are "forced" to be defensive??? I thought it was an arena for intelligent, positive, informative debate on any particular issue a poster wished to raise!
Thirdly, if I understand this right....this forum is entitled "Any Other Military Encounters" and the post entitled "War In Iraq", therefore, I would expect any aspect of this military encounter to be open for discussion. Sorry, but I am with Doc Mary on this...
I don't mean to add fuel to a fire...I just want to make sure I am on the same wavelength as everyone else, because if I am not....well....I may be in the wrong place too!
HM
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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Posted - March 29 2003 : 07:04:28 AM
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Well, color me confused, too, Huggy. A lot of shit going down these days, it would seem.
I duly noted the points made by both you & the Doc, and have changed the name of this thread to hopefully clarify a bit. I don't believe for a minute, though, that anyone above meant any harm ... I don't look at this as a "Pro-War" thread or the Lion's Den threads as the "Anti-War" - though it very well may turn out that way, that isn't the intent.
This thread was started by me to allow simple discussion of the [more] clear-cut events in this war, rather than the not-so-clear, despite some assertions, politics behind it.
Probably a mute point now, there may be no one left to discuss it!
 Why can't we all just get along?
I see the suicide bombers have made their first strike ...
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Ilse
The Dutch Trader
Netherlands
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Posted - March 29 2003 : 7:26:37 PM
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Everything reported is propaganda right now, from all sides. I don't believe anything I see or read about this. There are no clearcut events. It is very obvious to me, reading this thread, we, in Western Europe and you in the US, are miles apart on reporting on this and interpreting this. Is it in the eye of the beholder, or is it in the eye of the reporter? Do you believe Robin Cook? Or Rumsfeld? Does it matter?
It will be years if not decades, before we will know what really happened.
They call this the "fog of war". Or in another quote: "Truth is the first casualty of war." |
OH HAI!
Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page |
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richfed
Sachem
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Ilse
The Dutch Trader
Netherlands
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Posted - March 30 2003 : 12:28:01 PM
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the Iraqi Minister of Information ... You are an evil dog!!
Well, I hope you are right. My newspaper had this excellent extra feature on the war reporting right now, and how much you can trust it. Well, not much.
Bark! Bark! |
OH HAI!
Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - March 31 2003 : 08:35:47 AM
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I definitely feel that we cannot necessarily believe everything we are told by reporters... even those who are embedded. It is simply human nature to want to put one's own "slant" on things.
I do, however, think that we here at home, Rich, are fortunate to be able to see and hear the briefings that are given by the various Generals, both at the Pentagon and at Centcom. I really do feel that we are being given the facts. Maybe not all of them, for various reasons, but I do feel that what we are told by those doing these briefings is truthful. |
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
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Posted - April 02 2003 : 08:19:00 AM
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| Just saw footage of the amazing rescue of PFC Jessica Lynch. What our forces did to retrieve this brave soldier was unbelievable (or believable). All the branches of service and special ops that participated to bring her to safety are to be commended. God bless her, her family, and America! |
Theresa |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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Posted - April 03 2003 : 06:19:09 AM
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Yeah, bravo & kudos to all involved here, including the young lass ... I have the utmost respect for all of them.
But ... I gotta say ... what the blazes is a young girl of 19 - a rather petite looking one to boot - doing in the desert of Iraq fighting Fedayeen & suicide bombers???!!! - I don't get it. I know, I know, we're all supposed to be equal ... but, but ... we're different! She just shouldn't have been there - supply convoy or not - is my humble opinion.
A truly spectacular rescue operation however ... I hope some of the other MIAs & POWs can meet similar good fortune! |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
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Posted - April 03 2003 : 08:42:54 AM
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More details are coming out now, regarding "Saving Private Lynch." I heard this morning that when the group was ambushed, she was wounded during the fight but was able to continue firing at the enemy, while some of her fellow soldiers were shot and killed near her. As they talk with her, they may be able to more accurately pin down who was killed and who may still be alive... somewhere.
Do you realize that this was the first time a Prisoner of War has been rescued alive since WWII?
In other news, I saw for the first time this morning the story of the Captain, whose name I cannot remember, who risked his own life to save that of a wounded Iraqi woman! This happened on Monday as a coalition force was moving to secure a strategic bridge. An Iragi woman was caught in the crossfire on the bridge. As the American soldiers advanced onto the bridge, they saw her and heard her crying for help. The Captain radioed for medics, threw a smoke grenade for cover, and went to her aid. When the medics arrived, they put her on a stretcher and carried her back to the coalition side to be treated.
You may have heard the quote that has been stated several times, that a commanding officer of some of our troops has stated that never before have they trained so strongly on who NOT to shoot in a war. Given all of the difficulties that have arisen, it must be obvious to any observer that they are trying very hard to help... not harm... innocent people.
I found a neat photo on the msnbc website of a couple of soldiers at a check point somewhere. One soldier was checking through the bag that an Iraqi woman was carrying, while the other soldier held and comforted her baby for her.
These images and stories speak for themselves.
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[To Be] Historical Events in this War in Iraq
