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 The LIGHT IN THE FOREST
 The Lion's Den ... International & Political Debate
 IMPORTANT: The Lion's Den Etiquette!
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Author Previous Topic: The Truth About Torture by Sen. John McCain Topic Next Topic: Nay or Yay - The Life of the Lions Den?  

richfed
Sachem


King 1
USA



Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002

Status: offline

Administrator

Posted - October 18 2003 :  06:38:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit richfed's Homepage  Click to see richfed's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Adele [excerpted] in another thread:

It is way too easy to read what we want to read and allow our initial emotional reaction to dictate our response. That is the problem. If I had a penny for every time I have had to bite my tongue, delete my original response, or wait 24 hours before making a response...I would be a very happy woman right now! I actually agree with Ilse to a certain extent, and it has nothing to do with being European, or not understanding the US reaction to 9/11 (although the points are well-taken Scott), it has simply to do with the basic rules of debate. One's argument or position on an issue is considerably weakened when passion or emotion is allowed to take over, because the facts, logic and reason of your debate are lost under the expression of feeling. It can intimidate or alienate other debaters, which does not make for a very positive discussion arena. 'Take the worthless raghead out and shoot him' or sentiments like it, are not really useful or informative comments, in my opinion. However, a response starting with 'He should have a military tribunal because....' would make worthy reading I think.

Emotion and passion have a place for all of us, they are the driving force to fight for what we believe is right, but they really need to be kept in hand when debating one's cause. Everytime there is an emotional outburst of this type here, the chances decrease of having other board regulars join in a discussion, and that is so sad. People have stated that they don't join in because it is too stressful, or because they are afraid they will be made to look foolish. And I can understand that, because some of the debates here become so aggressive. They key to making your point well, is not how forcefully it is expressed, but how calmly and rationally you respond, how provocative are your questions, how well do you use facts ...


This forum will never be the enriching, enlightening exchange of viewpoints that it can be unless Adele's advice is heeded. Making bombastic posts that ridicule a specific poster and/or general point of view do nothing to induce conversation. It only serves to further the agenda of the poster. Most folks will shy away from such material, rather than join in a battleground where they stand to be mocked.

Please, think before you post! Help make this particular forum a learning place, rather than an isolated outpost where posters fear to tread.

Thanks!

Rich
Mohican Press
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Adele
The Huggy Merchant



Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002

Status: offline

 

Posted - December 12 2005 :  01:29:33 AM  Show Profile  Send Adele a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by richfed

Originally posted by Adele [excerpted] in another thread:

It is way too easy to read what we want to read and allow our initial emotional reaction to dictate our response. That is the problem. If I had a penny for every time I have had to bite my tongue, delete my original response, or wait 24 hours before making a response...I would be a very happy woman right now! I actually agree with Ilse to a certain extent, and it has nothing to do with being European, or not understanding the US reaction to 9/11 (although the points are well-taken Scott), it has simply to do with the basic rules of debate. One's argument or position on an issue is considerably weakened when passion or emotion is allowed to take over, because the facts, logic and reason of your debate are lost under the expression of feeling. It can intimidate or alienate other debaters, which does not make for a very positive discussion arena. 'Take the worthless raghead out and shoot him' or sentiments like it, are not really useful or informative comments, in my opinion. However, a response starting with 'He should have a military tribunal because....' would make worthy reading I think.

Emotion and passion have a place for all of us, they are the driving force to fight for what we believe is right, but they really need to be kept in hand when debating one's cause. Everytime there is an emotional outburst of this type here, the chances decrease of having other board regulars join in a discussion, and that is so sad. People have stated that they don't join in because it is too stressful, or because they are afraid they will be made to look foolish. And I can understand that, because some of the debates here become so aggressive. They key to making your point well, is not how forcefully it is expressed, but how calmly and rationally you respond, how provocative are your questions, how well do you use facts ...


This forum will never be the enriching, enlightening exchange of viewpoints that it can be unless Adele's advice is heeded. Making bombastic posts that ridicule a specific poster and/or general point of view do nothing to induce conversation. It only serves to further the agenda of the poster. Most folks will shy away from such material, rather than join in a battleground where they stand to be mocked.

Please, think before you post! Help make this particular forum a learning place, rather than an isolated outpost where posters fear to tread.

Thanks!





This quote was taken by Rich from a post I made over two years ago. I stand by what I said then, and I never thought I would see the day when I would have to use it in my final post. Perhaps some of you could read it again, and realise that the Lions Den was created for debate - it is not difference of opinion that drives people away, it is responses to points of debate that are downright rude, and even xenophobic. It is not about 'throwing toys out of the pram', or 'running for cover when things get tough', it is simply about not having the basic right to express ones opinion without receiving personal insults as a response. I do believe that, not for the first time, a post of mine that was in no way inflammatory, or disrespectful to any person or nationality brought forth a response that was personal and insulting.

I would like to think that I have behaved with dignity and decorum throughout my six years as a member of this board, and I have learned a lot from other posters who have acted similarly, and presented me with varied and interesting points of view. But I am tired of campaigni
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Chris
Colonial Settler

Hawkeye II
USA



Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 25 2002

Status: offline

 

Posted - December 12 2005 :  02:15:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Hi Adele,

I have never met you, and I don't go into the Lion's Den, so I am unaware of the controversy there. However, I know that you are well-loved, and I hope you will remain a member of Mohicanland. In my many years here, I have realized that I have enough things in my personal life to keep my blood pressure plenty high, and I don't need to go visiting the Lion's Den to keep it up. Try my philosophy awhile. Visit the other forums for friendship and entertainment, and maybe sometime you might want to peek in the door of the Lion's Den to see if you would be comfortable there again. If not, close the door and don't look back. You are valued here and I would hate to see the rest of us lose your company.

Chris
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood


Young George Washington
USA



Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002

Status: offline

Donating Member

Posted - December 12 2005 :  11:37:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Since I have been involved in Mohicanland, I have observed this forum causing nothing but trouble, resulting in anger, hard-feelings, and people jumping ship. If I understand correctly, it was originally begun by Lainey with her love of political and religious debate. Unfortunately, Lainey is no longer involved with Mohicanland. Therefore, I feel that it has outlived its purpose.

My suggestion would be that Rich might consider locking it down for good, and putting a rule in place that forbids any political or religious discussions that address current events. Any discussions involving historical events that happened over... say 25 years ago... could be allowed, if kept civil.

Just my humble opinion.
WW

"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been."
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Ilse
The Dutch Trader

Weerribben
Netherlands



Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002

Status: offline

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Posted - December 12 2005 :  5:07:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ilse's Homepage  Send Ilse a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
WW. You know it. And I don't give a flying **** anymore.

OH HAI!
Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman





Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005

Status: offline

 

Posted - December 12 2005 :  11:45:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
historical events that happened over... say 25 years ago... could be allowed, if kept civil.


You might want to make that 225 years.


"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet"
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood


Young George Washington
USA



Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002

Status: offline

Donating Member

Posted - December 13 2005 :  10:22:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I think you're right, Fitz! And even that could be risky!

"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been."
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Monadnock Guide
Council of Elders


USA



Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
March 14 2005

Status: offline

 

Posted - December 13 2005 :  10:47:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
As a moderator WW, I'd say you've done an excellent job.

you can keep "The Change"
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caitlin
Bumppos Tavern Patron


MMBrand
USA


Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002

Status: offline

Donating Member

Posted - December 13 2005 :  9:44:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit caitlin's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Chris

Hi Adele,

I have never met you, and I don't go into the Lion's Den, so I am unaware of the controversy there. However, I know that you are well-loved, and I hope you will remain a member of Mohicanland. In my many years here, I have realized that I have enough things in my personal life to keep my blood pressure plenty high, and I don't need to go visiting the Lion's Den to keep it up. Try my philosophy awhile. Visit the other forums for friendship and entertainment, and maybe sometime you might want to peek in the door of the Lion's Den to see if you would be comfortable there again. If not, close the door and don't look back. You are valued here and I would hate to see the rest of us lose your company.

Chris




I agree with Chris, I have no idea what transpired because after entering the "Lion's Den" once, I never felt the desire to go back.

I wish you all the best and hope that you will be back to visit soon.
as always,
Caitlin

Jack McCall: "Should we shake hands or something, relieve the atmosphere. I mean how stupid do you think I am?"
Wild Bill Hickok: "I don't know, I just met you."

"A nation with no regard to it's past will have little future worth remembering."
A.Lincoln

"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize that they were the big things"
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qasimoto
Pioneer

USA


Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
March 11 2005

Status: offline

 

Posted - December 30 2005 :  01:03:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I totally agree with Wilderness Woman re Lions' Den. I further see no point in a political thread even being in the LOTM site or Board, there're plenty of more appropriate places for political posturing and invective.

Is'nt this site, from its name, about the F&I wars or at least their era? If so, what on earth is "Lions' Den" doing here anyway? Shut it down, it's not constructive and if anything is causing alienation.

What's next, muslim vs. Christian? (And don't get me started on that, I've long been in favor of nuking the entire middle east anyway. Sure we'd be a rogue nation, but a big and powerful one.) (Rich, no new thread on that, please. The "Glow in the Dark Den", perhaps?)

Qasimoto
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