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Kate
Ariel's Cabin Caretaker, Retired
United Kingdom
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 10 2002
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 Posted - January 10 2004 : 7:41:36 PM
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I know that this post deviates from the topic but… since there have already been a couple of posts concerning this subject, I’d REALLY like to clear up some false impressions some might have formed, on the basis of the those posts. I hope you’ll bear with me…
Dear Sgt. Munro…
While I agree with some of your comments re: Britain, I feel you’re ‘over-simplifying’ and ‘under-estimating’ a few things and I’d really like to amend that.
I would HOPE that America has gotten a Constitution with more ‘power to the people’ than we have. Many of your ancestors came from Britain, having suffered from a hard, unyielding – in fact, downright AWFUL government!! And you had a clean slate to build something up from the Political garbage of the ‘old country’!! If you HADN’T pulled something better together, I’d have wondered what the heck was wrong with you all!!
But Britain hasn’t had that chance!!! They have had to work at CHANGING things. And unfortunately, it’s much faster to build something from scratch, than to tear something down and start again. And lets face it, in a country with over 4,000 years of history (where, remember yours is just what? A little less than 400 years, so has a little less ‘baggage’ to carry!) we have a LOT to ‘tear down’!! And in the course of tearing it down, making changes and bringing in NEW methods, we’ve had to get rid of many ingrained ideas and old ‘customs’. And that isn’t easy!!
We are trying to destroy a class system, something you as a country have never had to do. Though I believe you DO have a class system, it is very unlike ours and does not have old ideas that hold you back in the same way ours has done. The remnants of hundreds of years of subjugation have had to be destroyed – and that takes time. Much as folks would like it to, that kind of change isn’t made overnight but – it’s changing now, and changing FAST! Our ‘working class’ is now merging VERY definitely with our ‘middle class’ and the lines of demarcation are all but obliterated. And that has given us a new freedom but it HAS been problematic.
Having said that, I believe that your country is suffering from MANY of the same problems we have.
Education: From reading your newspapers and articles through the online news agencies, it seems to me that your schools are having much the same problem as ours – teaching posts being downsized, and teachers’ salaries not reflecting the work expected of them. Hence, stress and demoralisation is causing teachers to ‘drop out’ of the educational system.
As far as ‘higher’ education goes, in a way you are right, but you are also VERY WRONG. Our ‘higher education’ (University) wasn’t ‘free’ as you suggest. Many students got ‘grants’ to pay for their University tuition. BUT – LET’S QUALIFY THAT a little. It WAS ‘means tested’ (you only qualified for it if your parents’ income was below the standard set) and to qualify for it, they had to work and work DARNED HARD at High School, to QUALIFY for a place at University, the same as any paying student. You didn’t get a place at University just because you fancied or wanted one.
Government funded financial assistance was the incentive to get rid of that ‘only the rich can afford an education’ notion and to make university SEEN to be available to the working class. For MANY YEARS, higher education was something that our fathers and grandfathers believed was outwith our social class. Children were never encouraged to reach for the top and they never assumed that they would/could go on to ‘higher learning’ as a matter of course. For years, under the ‘class system’, the British people were conditioned to believe that a University education was something only the RICH could afford and in many cases, even with two parents working and the student doing part time work, it WAS still unaffordable! Looking back now, it seems incredible that working c |
Kate
"Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thainig thu." (Remember the people from whom you came.)
~ Celtic Wisdom
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Kate
Ariel's Cabin Caretaker, Retired
United Kingdom
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 10 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - January 10 2004 : 8:22:33 PM
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PS – I’m sorry, there was one other point I should have made but… felt that that last post was MORE than long enough!
I’m not British. I was born in Scotland, of Scottish parents, and Scottish Great, Great, GREAT… blah, blah, blah… But *I* was raised in Canada. I view Canada as my ‘home’, my roots, where I spent my informative years, my high school days… and didn’t leave until I was nearly 21. That’s where I *belong*.
I am now BACK in Scotland and have lived here for MANY years (though there were a COUPLE of periods of living in Europe), but please don’t assume I was trying to base my post on some kind of ‘loyalty’ factor. Or trying to ‘defend my country’. As I say, Britain ISN’T really ‘my country’. However, I feel having lived here so long, I THINK I’m pretty much qualified to look at it FAIRLY and assess it’s strengths and weaknesses as I see them. You lived here 3 years(?), Sgt.? I’ve lived here… oh, nearly 30 years. I’ve SEEN the changes, I’ve LIVED THROUGH the changes, and… I just wanted to say that I believe Americans have a totally false idea of life in Britain. And I just wanted to try and let folks know that really, it isn’t NEARLY as bad a place as you might think! It’s different to yours, I’ll give ye THAT! But that doesn’t make it BAD!! In fact, I think if you came and visited and gave it a chance, I'm pretty sure you'd LIKE it!
Just something to consider… |
Kate
"Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thainig thu." (Remember the people from whom you came.)
~ Celtic Wisdom
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - January 11 2004 : 10:42:52 AM
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All that I have said, I stand behind 100%. Riddle me this Kate, why do alot of folks come to the United States for advanced medical treatments? Also, where do the majority of the medicenes and equipment used in your hospitals come from? And again, where do you think said items were developed? I eagerly await your answers...
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - January 11 2004 : 11:11:32 AM
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P.S.- If you did read my posts, you will see that I have no animosty toward the British people, but that I lament the lack of growth and individual pursuit of excellence. As to the '4000 years' of history you speak of, that would make for an interesting thread in itself. Especially when you include the Roman ocuupation, followed by the infighting of the kingdoms of Avalon, Alba, et.al. (During which time you had terror raids by the Vikings) This leads to the subjugation by the Normans in 1066, followed by a 'revolution' in the 1640's, with a temporary commonwealth (Another 'terror' period, if might say), of course during the period between the Normans and the Commonwealth you did have the first example of 'individual' rights in the Magna Carta. Then a restoration in the 1660's, followed by another 'invasion' in the 1690's, by a Dutchman named William, where Dutch troops occupied London and even the Coldstream Guards 'bugged-out' while other English troops declared neutrality. Then, of course, you have what some called the 'Second Norman Conquest' with the House of Hanover, in the early 1700's, where the king did not even speak English. Yes, I do admit that those "4000 years" would make for fun discussion, what do you say, Kate?
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Kate
Ariel's Cabin Caretaker, Retired
United Kingdom
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 10 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - January 11 2004 : 1:28:12 PM
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Well actually… MOST of it is of BRITISH origin, some of it is American origin – just as yours is American with some ‘foreign’ stuff thrown in. We develop and use much of our OWN technology, just as you do. MUCH of our medical drugs, (particularly for Cardiovascular disease, metabolic disorders, brain diseases and cancers) and equipment, particularly DIAGNOSTIC EQUIPMENT is from one of the world’s leading diagnostics companies, BAYER, which is part of the global concern Bayer AG, based in Leverkusen, Germany. Bayer has been trading in the UK/Ireland region since Friedrich Bayer first sold his dyestuffs here in 1871. Early business was handled through the engineering company JM Steel, then through Bayer’s own operations, based in Manchester, later Surrey and now Newbury, Berkshire.
It is also famous for producing many class leading prescription medicines, including the first effective ‘anti-infectives’. Bayer UK also does extensive research into disorders that markedly impair quality of life, such as diabetes, respiratory disorders, haemophillia, viral infections and erectile dysfunction.
It is BAYER’s development of good ole ASPIRIN that is behind the development of every other ‘aspirin based’ prescriptive drug in America. In fact, the launch of a new intravenous immunoglobulin, Gamunex, being produced from the world’s first purpose built production facility in NORTH CAROLINA, is on track. But, thought it may be developed in America, it’s not an AMERICAN company that is producing it.
The company has significant diagnostics equipment manufacturing units in the UK/Ireland, making it a major exporter, as well as importers, distributors and sales and marketing specialists. It’s a world player, sourcing products internationally as well as exporting to international companies here and abroad.
Then there is ‘SSL International PLC’ created by a merger of Seaton Scholl Healthcare PLC and London Internation Group PLC’ in June 1999. This group has operations in over 30 countries. They are a leading healthcare group producing a range of premium branded products to the medical and consumer healthcare markets and have manufacturing sites in the UK, US, Continental Europe and the Far East. What they are selling to the Americans? DUREX.
Two examples…
Uh… guess where America gets some of IT’S medicines, equipment and healthcare products?
Some patients do indeed travel to the US for some break-through medical treatments. Equally people from around the world COME HERE. It depends very much on the problem/sickness/condition and new procedures being carried out in what part of the world.
For example, my son had heart surgery (twice) at the Scottish Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Edinburgh, a procedure which was PIONEERED by the very Doctor that performed his surgery. Mr. Godman (Specialists and Consultants use the term 'Mr.' and not 'Dr.') was at that time (and may possiby still be, I don't know as Keith no longer has to see him) Paediatric Cardiologist to the Saudi Arabian Royal Family. Whatever you think of the S.A. Royal Family, they only 'buy the best'.
Also, I have to disagree with one of your previous comments... the BEST Children's Hospital in the world has got to be 'Great Ormond Street Hospital For Children', London (The Edinburgh hospital for Sick Kids is recognised as a wonderful hospital for children too so I had no problem with Keith's surgery being done THERE). The Hospital and the (G.O.S.H.)Institute are world leaders in child health and research. They treat children from around the world, and contribute to global child well-being through their Centre for International Child Health. Just a little bit of info: J.M. Barrie donated ALL the Royalties and Profits of his book 'Peter Pan' to 'Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital'.
Medical Research is very much a global thing now, with Research establishments all over the world jo |
Kate
"Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thainig thu." (Remember the people from whom you came.)
~ Celtic Wisdom
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Kate
Ariel's Cabin Caretaker, Retired
United Kingdom
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
June 10 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - January 11 2004 : 4:53:25 PM
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Oooops, see what happens when ye leave the Board FOR ONE MINUTE! (Okay... a COUPLE of minutes!) I wrote a reply, got diverted, DIDN’T post it right away, went to do some other things, POSTED it – and found your PS…
So – in response to your PS: Yes indeed I DID read your posts. And I was pretty sure that you DIDN’T harbour any animosity toward the British People. As I harbour no animosity toward AMERICANS. HECK, I have had my last 5 – NOPE, SIX! annual holidays in America!
Howsever, while I felt you had no animosity towards us, I felt you didn’t and still don’t have an ‘up-to-date’ picture of Britain. And so… my purpose was to just ‘bring you up to speed’. And I wanted to let others who might not have ANY knowledge of Britain, know that though we DO have some problems, they aren’t any different nor, to be honest from what I have seen on all those holidays of mine, any WORSE then American ones. And that many of our problems have arisen through trying to get so many gol-darned CHANGES sorted out!
However, you’re totally wrong about the “…the lack of growth and individual pursuit of excellence”. And if you had visited us within the last 20 years or so, you’d see that.
And while I understand that many folks have a poor opinion of socialised medicine, I feel lots of Americans don’t even know what our ‘socialised medicine’ is about or how it works. For a start, most think it’s free. I wanted folks to know that it ISN’T necessarily bad! And though we DO have our ‘Socialised’ Medical Care, it doesn’t mean that we still use leeches and trepanning! Well, actually, we DO still use leeches. HEY!! They are now used by LEADING SPORTS INJURY UNITS!!! They have been found to be EXTREMELY EFFICACIOUS in treating really bad contusions (bruising) and injuries recover at a much faster rate when treated by leeches… OKAY!! We use maggots too!!!! But THEY have proved to be EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL in clearing out infected wounds that won’t heal!! Heck, they ARE special maggots that are bred for this purpose, are sterilised and used mostly in ‘extreme’ cases… BUT WE DON’T USE TREPANNING ANY MORE!!! Well… not so’s you’d notice! 
“…of course during the period between the Normans and the Commonwealth you did have the first example of 'individual' rights in the Magna Carta.”
Yeeees, but… don’t forget, though Magna Carta is considered the cornerstone of liberty and the chief defence against arbitrary and unjust rule in England, many scholars see it as containing few sweeping statements of principle but rather a series of concessions wrung out of a reluctant King John by his rebellious barons. What it DID do was establish for the first time a very significant constitutional principal, namely that the power of the king could be limited by a written grant.
Ahhh… AND YOU’VE LEFT OUT one very important document – the Declaration of Arbroath, a formal Declaration of Independence drawn up 6th April, 1320, (in Arbroath Abbey – not three minutes walk from my house). This was, in effect, the Scottish equivalent, where Bishop Bernard de Linton wrote, on behalf of Robert the Bruce, to the Pope to ask his assistance declaring Bruce king and thus, hopefully getting peace for Scotland. In effect, this was about getting freedom for the Scottish ‘individual’… At that time, in the normal course of events, the Scots weren’t really bothered about ‘who’ was King - it didn’t affect them. Their Clan Chief was their ‘Head Honcho’ and it was to him that they owed allegiance. Therefore, this Declaration, trying to achieve ‘peace’ was about allowing the individual Scot to go about his business, live his life without fear and not be harassed by an English usurper. (By the way, for those that might not know… the Declaration of Arbroath was used as the basis of the AMERICAN Declaration of Independence, with passages taken out of ours and used within yours.)
Conquests, invasi |
Kate
"Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thainig thu." (Remember the people from whom you came.)
~ Celtic Wisdom
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - January 12 2004 : 10:15:32 AM
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quote:
Also, I have to disagree with one of your previous comments... the BEST Children's Hospital in the world has got to be 'Great Ormond Street Hospital For Children', London (The Edinburgh hospital for Sick Kids is recognised as a wonderful hospital for children too so I had no problem with Keith's surgery being done THERE). The Hospital and the (G.O.S.H.)Institute are world leaders in child health and research. They treat children from around the world, and contribute to global child well-being through their Centre for International Child Health. Just a little bit of info: J.M. Barrie donated ALL the Royalties and Profits of his book 'Peter Pan' to 'Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital'.
On this we shall continue to disagree, since pediatric transplant surgery and numerous child vaccines (including Polio, here in my hometown of Pittsburgh by Dr. Saulk) were pioneered in the U.S.
quote:
Uh… guess where America gets some of IT’S medicines, equipment and healthcare products?
Maybe Kate, but there is somewhat of a...uh, trade deficit (in our favor). Nextime you are 'in hospital', look to see how many products are by companies like 3M or Littmann. I'll give you a hint, 3M is one of the worlds largest producers of dressings, bandages, surgical gowns, masks & screens; and Littmann (a subsidiary of 3M) is well known around the world for stethascopes.
quote:
It is BAYER’s development of good ole ASPIRIN that is behind the development of every other ‘aspirin based’ prescriptive drug in America.
If you really look into it, you will see that Bayer did nothing more than to 'stand upon the shoulders of giants' (examples: Gerhardt; who discovered the buffering compund to easy ingestion and of course Hippocrates; who is creditied with the initial discovery around 400 B.C., among many others who continued to refine the product through the 19th century, a little before Bayer's marketing venture in 1899).
As to your examples, Bayer and SSL, I can also "name names", but I will not go into all of them since it would needlessly consume bandwidth. But, here are a few:
3M (mentioned above) -headquartered in Minnesota
Abbott Laboratories -headquartered in Illinios
Bristol-Myer-Squibb -headquartered in New York
Baxter Healthcare -headquartered in Illinois
Pfizer (to which every man mentions in his prayers) -New York
Wyeth -founded in Pennsylvania
Mylan (subsidiary companies include Bertek and UDL) -Pennsylvania
The above constitute less than 10% of what I found through my own 'layman' search, of less than one hour.
quote:
Whatever you think of the S.A. Royal Family, they only 'buy the best'.
Yeah, they come here for their transplants and post-op care (UPMC Medical Center in Pittsburgh), both on the adult side and pediatric. I know this for fact because the Allegheny County Police had been detached as part of their security detail in the past (myself included), and my wife is part of the transplant coordination unit (pre-op) for the Starzl Clinic (UPMC).
quote:
Some patients do indeed travel to the US for some break-through m |
Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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May 13 2002
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
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July 08 2002
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Dances with Beagles
Colonial Settler
USA
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May 19 2002
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Posted - January 12 2004 : 8:12:53 PM
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I can see that I'm not the only one who had Ralph Kramden's voice going through their head...!
Last week (Wed.) was a full moon.
A day later, my school had an incredible number of discipline referrals, a couple of fights, etc. The In-School Suspension room was more than maxed out, and is booked up for the next few days, with students waiting to serve an ISS (a "suspended" sentence, I guess?!!)
A coincidence?!!
I think not!
(Moon detention is sounding pretty good right about now....! "To the moon!") |
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
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Posted - January 12 2004 : 9:34:30 PM
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| Been around LUNAtics for so long makes me wanna do the moon walk.Fly me to the moon......... |
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Ilse
The Dutch Trader
Netherlands
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May 17 2002
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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May 13 2002
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Posted - January 13 2004 : 6:55:58 PM
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Hey Ilse - these old eyes can't quite make out the text - even when "clicking to enlarge". Translation, please?
PS - I can read - "Pst!!" & "Typical European." |
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Kaylynn44
Mohicanite
USA
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July 13 2002
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Posted - January 13 2004 : 7:35:59 PM
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Rich,
I think that the text underneath is the cartoonist's name. I can make out Wolfgang Amner, but I just can't make out what is in front of Wolfgang. Got to get me some glasses!!!
Kay |
~ An Infinite Zephyr~
Some things never end
As long as goodness exists
Winds shall always soothe
www.cloudsbooks.com
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - January 13 2004 : 7:50:01 PM
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That's a classic, Ilse. Very funny, which daily was it published in?
Your Most Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Ilse
The Dutch Trader
Netherlands
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May 17 2002
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Posted - January 14 2004 : 04:50:54 AM
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The text underneath is the copyight:
Tekening (=drawing): Wolfgang Ammer. Ammer is an Austrian cartoonist; this cartoon was published in the Dutch daily "NRC Handelsblad".
I could post a larger version, but maybe the file would be too large? |
OH HAI!
Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
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May 13 2002
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 Posted - January 14 2004 : 05:36:03 AM
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AHHH!!! I see now!!! [courtesy of a huge version via E-mail  ] Thanks, Ilse! |
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